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The vicious cycle of not being elite

S

srw

New member
Ladies and gents..I honestly didn't mean to start a flame war over the issue of talent..

I judge players this way. IMO a team needs 3 guys at this level that are not role players to win...

Examples:
Hawk Les Powell (Trimpe Jones Bertolini Thomas etc were all role players;not that they werent important..just not difference makers)

Hawk Manuel Jackson

Parker Jackson Bayo

Cellus Ruff Will

IMO the top three of this team do not measure up with those teams, and thats why its going to be difficult to do much...

The problem as a program IMO is we aren't elite anywhere....and its making it hard to achieve what I want.

Im not saying our players arent good, they just arent good enough
 
srw said:
Ladies and gents..I honestly didn't mean to start a flame war over the issue of talent..

I judge players this way. IMO a team needs 3 guys at this level that are not role players to win...

Examples:
Hawk Les Powell (Trimpe Jones Bertolini Thomas etc were all role players;not that they werent important..just not difference makers)

Hawk Manuel Jackson

Parker Jackson Bayo

Cellus Ruff Will

IMO the top three of this team do not measure up with those teams, and thats why its going to be difficult to do much...

The problem as a program IMO is we aren't elite anywhere....and its making it hard to achieve what I want.

Im not saying our players arent good, they just arent good enough
Click to expand...

Forgot POB. :D

But I hear what you're saying.

And you didn't start a flame war. I think you told the truth.

To that 'elite' end, I think Granger-Gilbert-Gillingham-Tucker could have been elite, which boggles my mind how that team went 9-20 in '02. I don't care how young they were, that team should have never gone 9-20. Ever. What a different world we'd live in had they not been 9-20.
 
srw said:
Ladies and gents..I honestly didn't mean to start a flame war over the issue of talent..

I judge players this way. IMO a team needs 3 guys at this level that are not role players to win...

Examples:
Hawk Les Powell (Trimpe Jones Bertolini Thomas etc were all role players;not that they werent important..just not difference makers)

Hawk Manuel Jackson

Parker Jackson Bayo

Cellus Ruff Will

IMO the top three of this team do not measure up with those teams, and thats why its going to be difficult to do much...

The problem as a program IMO is we aren't elite anywhere....and its making it hard to achieve what I want.

Im not saying our players arent good, they just arent good enough
Click to expand...

Allen Bowen Smith

Anderson Scott Reese

I see what you're saying... our big three are all guards

We need someone to step forward.
 
Was it enough with TB.....

IMO it was enough to be 5-0 right now...

BUT...

The question is was it good enough to win the league.

I think this team needs a championship-eqsue team, and as one forum member says,

I think TB was too close to being a guard to really make this team a championship caliber....
 
BradleyBrave said:
Forgot POB. :D

But I hear what you're saying.

And you didn't start a flame war. I think you told the truth.

To that 'elite' end, I think Granger-Gilbert-Gillingham-Tucker could have been elite, which boggles my mind how that team went 9-20 in '02. I don't care how young they were, that team should have never gone 9-20. Ever. What a different world we'd live in had they not been 9-20.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that team in 2002 is what ultimately got Coach Mo fired. They scheduled tough, lost some close games and never recovered.

Garbage happens sometimes. How else do you explain this year's Dallas Cowboys as an example?
 
I think TB could be an "elite" player... If AW keeps scoring 22+/g he probably counts. We all love SM and I think our season kinda hangs in the balance on his ankles, but I'm not sure I can call him elite or not (ducks salvo from amckillip :) )... Other than that, I think we have guys that are good players in our league, but not "elite."

If SM is going to struggle like he did vs. EIU, .500 would be a huge achievement, I think. If he's out .500 would be herculean.

Edit: Incidentally, I think DSE and WLJr, and maybe even JP could turn into something, but certainly aren't there yet.
 
Bravesfan said:
Yeah, that team in 2002 is what ultimately got Coach Mo fired. They scheduled tough, lost some close games and never recovered.

Garbage happens sometimes. How else do you explain this year's Dallas Cowboys as an example?
Click to expand...

I would say that the team with dye and roberson winning 1 road game got mo fired....

it was just a cut that didnt bleed quickly
 
On TB being elite..

He could be an elite 3 I believe...But the problem with this collection of players is its way to heavy on the guard end which forces him into the 4 role, egolf into the 5 etc.
 
I would put a healthy SM into the top player category (unfortunately he's not healthy) and I would say TB is there too (too bad his career is in doubt). Warren looked like he was going to be, but his development was stalled by the bum foot and never restarted.

That's about it, nobody else on this team is in the category of being a difference maker. I do think Walt Lemon will be by his junior year though.

As for all this talk about being guard-heavy and TB being a better fit for the 3-spot. I just don't buy it. Several top-25 teams play with a similar lineup (3 guards, a 6-6/6-7 guy at the 4 and one big guy at center. The huge difference is the quality of the big man. We don't have a reliable low post guy and that makes all the difference (Not that any of that matters since TB is out anyway, just saying).
 
Taylor is a very good player, he was our best rebounder last season and could have been our leading scorer if he had played more, a 6-6 player that can score from anywhere on the floor is irreplaceable, Jim Les has played so many guys out of position in the last 5 years which is why we have trouble inside, Egolf is a true 4 and Brown a 3, put in a capable center with these 2 and 2 of our guards and you have the start of something very good, play these guys out of position and you end up with what we have seen, a team that has a lot of good players that are in a position to fail because they are not playing to their strengths.
 
real fan said:
Taylor is a very good player, he was our best rebounder last season and could have been our leading scorer if he had played more, a 6-6 player that can score from anywhere on the floor is irreplaceable, Jim Les has played so many guys out of position in the last 5 years which is why we have trouble inside, Egolf is a true 4 and Brown a 3, put in a capable center with these 2 and 2 of our guards and you have the start of something very good, play these guys out of position and you end up with what we have seen, a team that has a lot of good players that are in a position to fail because they are not playing to their strengths.
Click to expand...

I can agree with this real..

Question for you....

Lets say 32 mins for TB.( at the small forward position)
That leaves you 88 mins for..

SM AW DSE WL and DD

Who do we play....Im not in any way disagreeing...Just showing the imbalance.
 
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Taylor Brown could have definitely been one of our best players to match up with anyone in SRW's original list.

Really, I think if Egolf would have stepped up this year, we should be competing for the conference title (with Brown). But he's the one that has been the most disappointing. There's still time of course...

I think Maniscalco would definitely be one of our Elite if he wasn't hurt.

Healthy Maniscalco + Warren + Healthy Brown + a Hypothetically Good Egolf. That would be enough to compete.
 
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