But past results don't.....nevermind.....
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Ugly game of the day
- Thread starter Da Coach
- Start date
But past results don't.....nevermind.....
Apparently their savior coach they hired to replace Joplin, Gene Cross, wasn't "honorable" enough for Toledo.
Sorry you cannot see the obvious similarities. I only mentioned this one example because of the odd and embarrasing news they made last night, but there are many others. And it is highly relevant to bring up these similar situations. Toledo thought they could do better and fired a decent coach. Now they are far worse off, and prior to the coaching change last year, the fans would have gladly taken the old coach back.
Again, this is a highly relevant comparison. If you want more, I'll gladly list dozens of more cases where a coaching change did not work out nearly as well as admins and fans had hoped. Just look at where Providence is at now. It is proof that fans should be careful what they wish for.
Amazing how the fire-the-coach fans do not even like to hear these examples.
Again, this is a highly relevant comparison. If you want more, I'll gladly list dozens of more cases where a coaching change did not work out nearly as well as admins and fans had hoped. Just look at where Providence is at now. It is proof that fans should be careful what they wish for.
Amazing how the fire-the-coach fans do not even like to hear these examples.
Da Coach..come on. I thought we moved on. There ARE examples where firing the coach didn't work. I've admitted this. Just as there ARE examples where firing the coach did work.
Why is this a hard concept to grasp? Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. I think we are all smart enough to understand this concept.
Some want it to happen and are willing to try something new, some don't want to happen and are cool with the status quo. God Bless America.
This part we agree on.
But we have posters citing cases where they say firing a coach lead to a great turnaround, and then they give us examples like Missouri State, which is still a work-in-progress at best. It is only fair to point out there are many cases that are not successful. That's all. Why are you and others right in this thread trying so hard to deny that this case is a relevant similarity to where we are now?
I am always open to people posting examples that support their viewpoint.
I have trouble understanding why anyone opposes that.
Where are all the examples of midmajors firing their coach and going on to a significantly greater success, or making the NCAA? I am not saying there are not some examples, but they are fewer than some pro-coaching change people believe. For every success like Tim Jankovich at ISU
)), there are a number of Jim Whitesells and Rick Majerus examples. In fact, every midmajor college in Illinois and dozens more in the midwest, have changed coach, some several times, since Jim Les was hired. Where are all the success stories?Why not look at past coaching changes at BU?
Stowell v. Versace - definite upgrade.
Versace v. Albeck - different circumstances, but definite downgrade.
Albeck v. Molinari - upgrade
Molinari v. Les - honestly about equal?
I can't really speak further back than Stowell.
Isn't the average coaching tenure somewhere in the 6-8 year range?
Stowell v. Versace - definite upgrade.
Versace v. Albeck - different circumstances, but definite downgrade.
Albeck v. Molinari - upgrade
Molinari v. Les - honestly about equal?
I can't really speak further back than Stowell.
Isn't the average coaching tenure somewhere in the 6-8 year range?
tornado
New member
Kowalczyk thinks he has a better group coming in -- but his four incoming recruits are all four extremely obscure and either unrated or ZERO-stars.
JMO
four guard offense
friend during ISU game..."he can't guard a 6-9 player"
they play out of position
rarely in position for a rebound
offensive scheme
willing to try something new
ever try playing 3 bigs at a time once this year
lose close games -
blow substantial leads -
I can see why people want change
I like JL
the players will stay
I hope the recruits come, they will help
I'll support whatever happens.
four guard offense
friend during ISU game..."he can't guard a 6-9 player"
they play out of position
rarely in position for a rebound
offensive scheme
willing to try something new
ever try playing 3 bigs at a time once this year
lose close games -
blow substantial leads -
I can see why people want change
I like JL
the players will stay
I hope the recruits come, they will help
I'll support whatever happens.
Da Coach, how can you say that Missouri State is a work in progress at best?
The Bears are tied for the lead in the conference and can win it outright with a victory on Saturday in Springfield.
The worst they can finish is 2nd place. And this is only Martin's 3rd season.
Greg Lansing has finished 3rd in the MVC this year. It's his first season at Indiana State.
squirrelgotdead
New member
Trust us. We know a work in progress when we see one.
Because I don't see the Toledo situation and Bradley situation similar at all. To me, Missouri State is a far more relevant example.
I've stated why. Toledo has had three coaches in about three, four years. One coach was let go for "off the court" stuff, not results related stuff. Tod K. is in his first year.
At Bradley we are talking about one coach in place for nine years. Not at all similar to Toledo. As I said, MSU firing Barry Hinson to go with Cuonzo Martin is a far, far, far more similar case.
Honestly, no. There are very few mid-majors with standards of winning where a coach is allowed to stay 9+ years without winning at least half his games in his own league.
I love you for that range.
Sometimes change for change sake is good.
Its time for new blood.
This of course isnt all JL's fault. But I think we need change. I hope its coming.
Da Coach and others don't. Thats ok too...
I am definitely not a fan of "change for change sake". I can't believe that you are really saying that you are.
It is only logical, and intelligent to look at every possible issue and circumstance before making a major move like a coaching change.
As I have asked elsewhere, where are all the examples of a coach in the MVC or similar situation being fiired and replaced, and making a major difference? Name one that made it to the NCAA inside of 4 or 5 years?
tornado
New member
none except JL has done that since Turgeon & Dana hired in the 90's and it still took them 4-5 years