tornado
New member
now that's a cool recruiting tool...
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Warren Jones arrested
- Thread starter Da Coach
- Start date
For many years I have heard that visiting teams have looked forward to coming to Peoria to play Bradley for this very reason. More than a few members of the other MVC teams over the years have gotten into a bit of trouble with their coaches for visiting Big Al's and the other similar establishments in Peoria.
It used to be a bigger problem for opposing coaches back in the 1970's, 1980's, and 1990's when the visiting teams would usually stay at the Pere Marquette, and Big Al's and a couple other adult establishments were virtually adjacent to the hotel.
It used to be a bigger problem for opposing coaches back in the 1970's, 1980's, and 1990's when the visiting teams would usually stay at the Pere Marquette, and Big Al's and a couple other adult establishments were virtually adjacent to the hotel.
I'm going to reply in this thread and do so with the hopes of not embarrassing anyone, offending anyone, or sounding hypocritical to the situation. Its a delicate balance.
First of all, college athletes drink and party like all college students do. You are naive if you think they don't. Most kids handle it where it doesn't effect their play, their school work, or their charitable obligations. Others don't. Are they given a great opportunity as scholarship athletes...absolutely. Can you expect them to live in a bubble, absolutely not.
When I arrived at BU was the last year Frats could serve alcohol out of kegs. It was fun, but it was also the beginning of a hyper-vigilant society surrounding college drinking. Greek parties turned into you could only drink whatever beer you brought and they gave you a ticket saying what you brought and the amount and it was checked off. If you think anyone was checking off the 24 Keystone Lights I brought to the basement of the DU house in the middle of a frat party, you envision there being better lighting in the basement than what there was.
I'm not making light of the fact some people's lives have been tragically altered by alcohol. And getting caught with a fake ID has much more serious consequences now than it did 20+ years ago. I once handed my fake ID to a BU cop who laughed and gave it back to me and said "Don't you know to never give your fake to a cop." No clue if they knew I was a BU athlete or not.
The truth is winning cures most, kids will be kids, and my athletic program is in shambles. And being 2 hours away from BU, most of the info I get is second hand, but it sounds like my university is as well. I can handle being embarrassed about my athletic program. It doesn't even bother me, sports is cyclical and you win some and you lose some. I just don't want to be embarrassed about the diploma on my wall.....that would be tragic.
First of all, college athletes drink and party like all college students do. You are naive if you think they don't. Most kids handle it where it doesn't effect their play, their school work, or their charitable obligations. Others don't. Are they given a great opportunity as scholarship athletes...absolutely. Can you expect them to live in a bubble, absolutely not.
When I arrived at BU was the last year Frats could serve alcohol out of kegs. It was fun, but it was also the beginning of a hyper-vigilant society surrounding college drinking. Greek parties turned into you could only drink whatever beer you brought and they gave you a ticket saying what you brought and the amount and it was checked off. If you think anyone was checking off the 24 Keystone Lights I brought to the basement of the DU house in the middle of a frat party, you envision there being better lighting in the basement than what there was.
I'm not making light of the fact some people's lives have been tragically altered by alcohol. And getting caught with a fake ID has much more serious consequences now than it did 20+ years ago. I once handed my fake ID to a BU cop who laughed and gave it back to me and said "Don't you know to never give your fake to a cop." No clue if they knew I was a BU athlete or not.
The truth is winning cures most, kids will be kids, and my athletic program is in shambles. And being 2 hours away from BU, most of the info I get is second hand, but it sounds like my university is as well. I can handle being embarrassed about my athletic program. It doesn't even bother me, sports is cyclical and you win some and you lose some. I just don't want to be embarrassed about the diploma on my wall.....that would be tragic.
Canton BU fan
Member
So they get in with a fake ID but do they not think anyone will recognize them?
tornado
New member
Rick-
I hear that point of view all the time...
kids will be kids,
everyone does it,
you are blind & naive if you think they're the only ones doing it,
it's no big deal - just a little fun & partying,
we did it too...etc...
Well, I have a slightly differing opinion - but please don't take it too critically because I am sure I will be accused of being a hypocrite or goody-two-shoes..
Here is my opinion summed up succintly:
-Rules are rules..once you begin excusing or ignoring rules violations it's a bad slippery slope
-The athletes are held to higher standard than average students (even the Athletic Dept admits this)
-All scholarship athletes agree to and sign CONTRACTS binding them to a behavioral code (referred to often in the media as Athletic Code violations)
-the entire atmosphere changes to a higher pitch when multiple players are or have been already in trouble and punished - should have been at the zero-tolerance level.
-All athletes should have 1 or 2 stern & inviolable rules on being in their dorms by 1am - especially weeknites, and NOT violating underage or other ALCOHOL laws
(especially since multiple kids at Bradley have been KILLED recently in alcohol related misbehavior - or had you not heard - LINK - LINK)
-lastly any talk of how it's benign, everyone's doing it, and we are being unreasonable by citing it as a problem - only serves to make the problem WORSE and downplay dangerous, self-destructive & "others-destructive", and criminal behavior.
And I am here to say NOT everyone is doing it....
to claim everyone's doing it is downright stupid and/or dishonest...
I did not do it and know many people who did not do it -
a comment like "everyone's doing it" it as senseless and inaccurate as "everyone's cheating on their tests" or "everyone's cheating on their wives"...
I hear that point of view all the time...
kids will be kids,
everyone does it,
you are blind & naive if you think they're the only ones doing it,
it's no big deal - just a little fun & partying,
we did it too...etc...
Well, I have a slightly differing opinion - but please don't take it too critically because I am sure I will be accused of being a hypocrite or goody-two-shoes..
Here is my opinion summed up succintly:
-Rules are rules..once you begin excusing or ignoring rules violations it's a bad slippery slope
-The athletes are held to higher standard than average students (even the Athletic Dept admits this)
-All scholarship athletes agree to and sign CONTRACTS binding them to a behavioral code (referred to often in the media as Athletic Code violations)
-the entire atmosphere changes to a higher pitch when multiple players are or have been already in trouble and punished - should have been at the zero-tolerance level.
-All athletes should have 1 or 2 stern & inviolable rules on being in their dorms by 1am - especially weeknites, and NOT violating underage or other ALCOHOL laws
(especially since multiple kids at Bradley have been KILLED recently in alcohol related misbehavior - or had you not heard - LINK - LINK)
-lastly any talk of how it's benign, everyone's doing it, and we are being unreasonable by citing it as a problem - only serves to make the problem WORSE and downplay dangerous, self-destructive & "others-destructive", and criminal behavior.
And I am here to say NOT everyone is doing it....
to claim everyone's doing it is downright stupid and/or dishonest...
I did not do it and know many people who did not do it -
a comment like "everyone's doing it" it as senseless and inaccurate as "everyone's cheating on their tests" or "everyone's cheating on their wives"...
While I agree with most of what you said, I do not think this issue is related to whether a program is winning or not. Losing is never a reason for an athlete to get arrested or be involved in illegal activities.
And we hear the "kids will be kids" line every time something like this happens. But these athletes spend hours and hours with compliance people, and other mentors in the athletic department, and going over the very strict written Code of Conduct that all athletes who represent a University have to abide by. And Bradley's Code is stricter than a lot of schools, but they know that. The degree of illegal activity certainly matters. There are some violations that are much worse than others, even the law and the BU Code clearly state that. But it is never excusable, and is embarrasses the university.
BTW, here is the PJS article- nothing new
http://www.pjstar.com/article/20150129/SPORTS/150129080
Lets just see how the PJ Star writers handle this. Will they write multiple columns calling for stricter punishment, calling out the coach, AD, and program "renegade"? I think we all know the answer to that. It didn't happen even after weeks went by after the Barnes arrest and no discipline was applied- there was not a word from the PJ Star gurus, and it won't happen now.
I admit I to once got caught with a fake id. This has been a law for a long time but unfortunately the state started cracking down on it again back in the early 2000's. I lost my license for a year and had to go thru many things such as alcohol evaluations. Much of this was way over done in my situation and has been my only brush with the law. The problem people have with this situation is going to be when and where it happened. Did they walk out the Civic Center and head down the block? I thought Geno would do better then he has. Admittedly being an ISU fan it is a lot more fun when both programs can both compete at the same time. Geno's problem now is he is not only losing games he has lost the program.
There was a previous comment made that in Jim Les's last year both Sammy and Taylor Brown were out for the season and neither that or the fact that Jim was a major factor in securing funding for the Renaissance Center was considered in him being fired. What I'm wondering is how does the board of trustees bring someone in that destroys relations with Jim Les, Alumni and other educators? "Once a Brave always a Brave". If I was a betting man I would say UC Davis will be back in the NCAA long before Bradley! I hope they do due diligence this time and soon.
Tornado....I respect your opinion, and I'm certainly willing to engage in a mutually respectful discussion.
In full disclosure I was part of Dewey's 93 team and that had several of us out drinking during a conference weekend against ISU where we were suspended afterwards. Closing Sullys was a fairly regular occurrence (You can insert joke about baseball players not being athletes if you wish
)
Dewey always told us he would give us enough rope to hang ourselves with....and that rope got a lot shorter for the remainder of the season. It also galvanized us where we swept Creighton the next weekend. And although the punishment was handled internally it made the newspapers the next day. Some may say that loss to ISU on Sunday kept us from getting an NCAA bid (We ended up 40-16)....but in truth it was probably a midweek loss to Illinois Weslyan that sealed our fate more than that conference game.
Now there were no laws broken in the incident above. Maybe university rules as a whole were different back them....I'm just sharing my personal experience. Were there athletes drinking. There were. Were there athletes not drinking....sure there were. I was pretty straight and narrow in high school and if the current rules were in place in 25 years ago (ouch, it hurts to say that) then maybe my social life at BU would have had a minimum of alcohol consumption. Who knows?
In full disclosure I was part of Dewey's 93 team and that had several of us out drinking during a conference weekend against ISU where we were suspended afterwards. Closing Sullys was a fairly regular occurrence (You can insert joke about baseball players not being athletes if you wish
) Dewey always told us he would give us enough rope to hang ourselves with....and that rope got a lot shorter for the remainder of the season. It also galvanized us where we swept Creighton the next weekend. And although the punishment was handled internally it made the newspapers the next day. Some may say that loss to ISU on Sunday kept us from getting an NCAA bid (We ended up 40-16)....but in truth it was probably a midweek loss to Illinois Weslyan that sealed our fate more than that conference game.
Now there were no laws broken in the incident above. Maybe university rules as a whole were different back them....I'm just sharing my personal experience. Were there athletes drinking. There were. Were there athletes not drinking....sure there were. I was pretty straight and narrow in high school and if the current rules were in place in 25 years ago (ouch, it hurts to say that) then maybe my social life at BU would have had a minimum of alcohol consumption. Who knows?
FlyingSpaghettiMonster
New member
Tornado....I respect your opinion, and I'm certainly willing to engage in a mutually respectful discussion.
In full disclosure I was part of Dewey's 93 team and that had several of us out drinking during a conference weekend against ISU where we were suspended afterwards. Closing Sullys was a fairly regular occurrence (You can insert joke about baseball players not being athletes if you wish
Dewey always told us he would give us enough rope to hang ourselves with....and that rope got a lot shorter for the remainder of the season. It also galvanized us where we swept Creighton the next weekend. And although the punishment was handled internally it made the newspapers the next day. Some may say that loss to ISU on Sunday kept us from getting an NCAA bid (We ended up 40-16)....but in truth it was probably a midweek loss to Illinois Weslyan that sealed our fate more than that conference game.
Now there were no laws broken in the incident above. Maybe university rules as a whole were different back them....I'm just sharing my personal experience. Were there athletes drinking. There were. Were there athletes not drinking....sure there were. I was pretty straight and narrow in high school and if the current rules were in place in 25 years ago (ouch, it hurts to say that) then maybe my social life at BU would have had a minimum of alcohol consumption. Who knows?
There was a similar environment 15 years ago. Easily 90% of the athletes at the time drank. Some sports kept more to themselves than others. Everyone knew about it. No one cared unless you got in trouble.
Drinking on campus became temporarily more severely punished and enforced around 10 years ago. A student died (5th year senior) and there was a state task force (or something similar) that came down to enforce underage drinking. They would pull people off the sidewalk and breathalyzer them. When I was there, the police didn't care as long as you weren't causing a problem. That enforcement decreased over time. I'm out of touch with the environment now. From my limited experiences around college kids, it doesn't seem like much has changed.
Kids in college do stupid things and get in trouble. No one got hurt here and this is a non-story for me. They were stupid and got in trouble. Meh. They'll get punished. The end.
bigjimmy
Active member
Obviously there are a lot of different opinions about alcohol. Anybody who is under 21 has a choice when and how they party, whether they are on a sports team or not. If you play a sport it's a choice that should have consequences as you are a representative of that school. They should be held to a higher standard.
tornado
New member
Yes - little known fact that's been spun falsely of late...
80% of the funding for all the upgrades, the Ren-Col, Markin, Alumni Center, and all that's left over from which we will draw to $ millions to buy out the contracts and get this mess behind us...
Yup - 80% was already either in the bank or solidly pledged even before Ken Kavangh was run off (2008 ).
People will say what they want & believe what they want and the hard facts might never be made available - but I feel compelled to defend the guys who DID raise most of it (Kavanagh, Les, Hammerton, Bish, Goldin, Englebrecht, Rick Gaa, Jerry Heller, John Matthews....)
So a lot of the braggadocio recently about who is or was responsible for the success of the fund raising is baloney.
Record setting fundraising in 2002-2008 landed most of the Campaign's funds - and the Renaissance Campaign was named, launched, celebrated, & promoted before the very people who now take credit for it ever arrived.
http://bubravesblogger.blogspot.com/2011/10/bu-fundraising-some-of-history-seems-to.html
http://www.bradleybraves.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=3400&ATCLID=1597812
http://www.bradleybraves.com/pdf7/2...PSID=19336&SPID=1498&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=3400
http://lydia.bradley.edu/hilltopics/archives/pdf/Hilltopics-v11i2-2005spring.pdf
http://explore.bradley.edu/connection/
none of us is perfect but wise people - even young ones - can put their responsibilities ahead of their pleasure seeking and honor their commitment to the Athletic Code.
You appear to be one who fully realized that if or when you crossed the line & fell short of the standard or the target for behavior - then you were pensive and determined to do better.
That's all I ask or expect - but we see a lot of the "everyone's doing it excuse" as cause to allow repeat, unrepentant violators right back on the team and enabling them to repeat & disappoint again.
I think we've all seen it as well on the high school level where our kids are on baseball/basketball/track teams while the coach makes special allowances and tolerates behavior that woulda gotten my kid punished or booted from the team - just because the kid happens to be a stud and has talent.
College kids
College kids
First, thanks to d c for making sure I could get some game information last night while on vacation out of the country.
On the arrests, let us not forget these gentlemen are getting $32k per year plus room and board so while kids will be kids, they have a lot at risk. My question to a coach, who by all metrics is not successful, what do you do now? If there are not appropriate consequences, the program continues to spin out of control.
I hope the university trustees are as embarrassed by this as I am, as a graduate, 85 and 89, affiliate faculty member, and a fan!
College kids
First, thanks to d c for making sure I could get some game information last night while on vacation out of the country.
On the arrests, let us not forget these gentlemen are getting $32k per year plus room and board so while kids will be kids, they have a lot at risk. My question to a coach, who by all metrics is not successful, what do you do now? If there are not appropriate consequences, the program continues to spin out of control.
I hope the university trustees are as embarrassed by this as I am, as a graduate, 85 and 89, affiliate faculty member, and a fan!
tornado
New member
All those in power in both 2002 & 2011 used the following reasons to fire everyone, clean house, and completely rebuild....
And in both cases (2002, 2011) the press (Phil Theobald in 2002, Kirk Wessler in 2011) were the Exorcists who helped rid of us of all the perceived demons.
Here's the reasons they hailed
-losing games, losing finances, losing respect, losing fan base
-not competing for championships
-embarrassments off the court
-concerns of declining ticket sales/revenue
-vocal & written complaints from fans & season ticket holders
-and the desire to restore the public image of Bradley basketball to some higher level.
In 2002 there were a couple of down years but everything including winning, post-season, national caliber success, funds & donations and restoration of the program & ticket sales all happened in just 4 years
In 2011, different story - all the moves that were made were horribly planned, horribly executed, misguided, and regardless of everyone's good intent and they're all nice guys, we ended up way, way worse in every regard -
especially ticket sales, embarrassments, and public image...
BUT - in the intervening span (2011-2015) we've been fed such a tremendous line of B***S**T from those in power & their allies in the media that we WERE on the right track, we were "doing it the right way", that fans needed to shut up and be patient, that the fans were uneducated, that we are MUCH better even though nobody could see it, and that all the problems if they did exist were all someone else's fault who got run out of here half a decade or more ago.
It's time those who have failed us miserably fess up, and yield the stage...
And in both cases (2002, 2011) the press (Phil Theobald in 2002, Kirk Wessler in 2011) were the Exorcists who helped rid of us of all the perceived demons.
Here's the reasons they hailed
-losing games, losing finances, losing respect, losing fan base
-not competing for championships
-embarrassments off the court
-concerns of declining ticket sales/revenue
-vocal & written complaints from fans & season ticket holders
-and the desire to restore the public image of Bradley basketball to some higher level.
In 2002 there were a couple of down years but everything including winning, post-season, national caliber success, funds & donations and restoration of the program & ticket sales all happened in just 4 years
In 2011, different story - all the moves that were made were horribly planned, horribly executed, misguided, and regardless of everyone's good intent and they're all nice guys, we ended up way, way worse in every regard -
especially ticket sales, embarrassments, and public image...
BUT - in the intervening span (2011-2015) we've been fed such a tremendous line of B***S**T from those in power & their allies in the media that we WERE on the right track, we were "doing it the right way", that fans needed to shut up and be patient, that the fans were uneducated, that we are MUCH better even though nobody could see it, and that all the problems if they did exist were all someone else's fault who got run out of here half a decade or more ago.
It's time those who have failed us miserably fess up, and yield the stage...
Granted, i only played high school ball, but i don't remember ever wanting to go out and party after getting whipped at home, especially against a (statistically) inferior opponent.
I'm a relatively recent graduate and had a fake for my first two years of undergrad. Everyone did. But they do crack down a lot harder now it seems, and i was typically rather cautious of using it 24/7, and at specific bars.
Now, i'm just your typical white guy, who no one would recognize. Being a d1 athlete (especially basketball) using a fake during the middle of the week? Severe lapse of judgment. Severe.
I'm a relatively recent graduate and had a fake for my first two years of undergrad. Everyone did. But they do crack down a lot harder now it seems, and i was typically rather cautious of using it 24/7, and at specific bars.
Now, i'm just your typical white guy, who no one would recognize. Being a d1 athlete (especially basketball) using a fake during the middle of the week? Severe lapse of judgment. Severe.
As was reported earlier- here is more information about the other players involved, and there is a new name now included- Omari Grier
Update of the information and more from Dave Reynolds, including statements of apology by Geno Ford-
http://www.pjstar.com/article/20150129/SPORTS/150129080/12701/SPORTS
Correction from the earlier information-
KaDarryl Bell did not have a fake ID, but was ticketed for underaged drinking
Omari Grier's involvment- it was Grier's ID that was illegally used by Warren Jones. Grier was not at the scene.
The Bradley players were was with "a group of 10 that was asked to leave the downtown bar (Big Al's) after they became unruly".
Canton BU fan
Member
Zero tolerance. Take their scholarships away and send them down the road. Everyone's NOT using or used a fake ID as some seem to think. I never did. Besides, it doesn't matter anyway. The best thing for them is to learn a lesson from this that they are not above the law. Coach should be sent with them immediately too. If there's not some sort of clause in his contract that makes him responsible for this type of conduct there should have been.
tornado
New member
I have also brought up Versace, Albeck, and Molinari - plenty of times when the situation warrants...
but this time it's to show the hypocrisy of those in charge, how they cited numerous reasons for treating JL so badly - all of which have occurred in spades under the current crew - and yet those in charge continue to defend and trumpet how great things are.
Also to show the hypocrisy of those who cover the two settings in the media