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Where are the hypocrites?

IMO, we should not be wasting time trying to compare which coach was left with what players. If people insist on comparing, and using the previous coach to justify the failures we've seen these past 3 1/2 years, we should be looking at what each coach did in recruiting and building their own set of players in those first 3-4 years.

Many could see that Les was recruiting and building a really talented set of players that would eventually gel into an NCAA Sweet 16 team his 4th year.

In his first 3 seasons, JL was not suffering repeated embarrassing 20 and 30 point blowouts. JL had just 5 such 20 point blowouts (the worst was 23 points) in his first 4 seasons including none in years 3 or 4, and none at home. Geno has already had an amazing 14 (fourteen!) such 20 point blowouts, including 7 blowouts of 30 or more points (including 37 and 39 point shellackings) in just 3 seasons, including 3 on our home floor!

JL was not posting 260+ RPI's like we have seen 2 of the last 3 years. His worst RPI in the first 4 years was 199, and the best was 39). Geno has had RPI's of 266, 191, and 265.

JL was not playing 300+ non-conference SOS's like we have seen the last 2 seasons. The last 2 seasons, the non-conference SOS has been 339 and 302.

And JL did not have any 20 loss seasons, like we have seen 2 of the last 3 years.

JL also did it without the advantage of new, 50-million dollar facilities like we have now.

I could go on with the comparisons if anyone wants more, and I haven't even touched on the massive and painful differences in fundraising, and revenues generated, as well as ticket renewals, sales, and attendance.

But I think most people could see by year 3 or 4 that JL was building a good team, headed for NCAA success, with solid talent and depth, with a lot more 4-year players and a lot less player turnover, and building record financial revenues for the Athletic Department that would eventually lead to the great new facilities which he never had the advantage of using to recruit his players.
It's difficult to see this current team playing in and winning NCAA games any time soon, though we can always hope. Just my opinion.
 
I believe it is a wash but JL nor any media ever spent 3 years whining about a bare cupboard ...

but here's why fans in JL's 3rd or 4th season had a bit more to be optimistic about...

-first - I still don't see what Cellus has to do with this
-and why are you calling me "son" - I might be older than you ;)

-but lastly - regardless of who had the better players - the main difference I see is that at least during his first three seasons - JL was competitive - we were in virtually every single game!

In JL's first 3 years he was 40-49, and suffered only FOUR 20-pt blowout losses and zero 24 or 24+ point losses.
In GF's first 3 years he was 37-62, but ...suffered TWELVE 20-pt blowout losses, eight 24+ point losses, and seven of 30 or more.
All but a few see the difference but unfortunately the admin seems to ignore it all or be listening to those few....
and that's why the attendance is at historic LOW levels and the arena is empty & dead.

I thought you'd get a kick out of the son reference :P I agree with you that I think the admins are ignoring the obvious. The problem doesn't just sit with the sports programs it is also with the academics and enrollment decline. Those need to be fixed with a greater urgency. With that being said at the rate the attendance decline is going the team could see their future playing at the Ren Col if time is not spent on cleaning the program up and making it back into an event where people want to attend. This may be my day dreaming but I wish we would've seen Jerrance Howard hired a few years ago. That might have at least keep the attendance intact.
 
I can confirm that Jerrance did contact Bradley and was interested in the open job, but at the time he was told Bradley wanted to go with someone who had head coaching experience, and thus he was not among those who were interviewed or given serious consideration.
I can also confirm that Jerrance would be very interested if the Bradley job were to ever become available again.
 
The 1st half of this statement is correct. The 2nd is grossly off base

tough to compare but the players JL inherited did "resist" playing the style & offense JL wanted - this was widely documented..
I never heard any such similar thing with GF although I did hear some of the players did not always mesh...
 
So for the next coach should BU go after a current head coach? Big 10 Assistant? Young with potential? Old to bring back stability and consistency? Or just keep paying Geno to get to play-in games?
 
If we're going down the comparison road....I think Les' first 3 years and Geno's first 3 years are a wash...they look similar to me. One could nitpick details here and there but I'm inclined to call it a wash.

Les won his way off the hot seat in the back half of year 4. Geno doesn't need a sweet 16, but he needs some momentum to survive, IMO.
 
The 1st half of this statement is correct. The 2nd is grossly off base

Geno inherited 3 players who were to eventually be awarded with 4 post-season honors-
Taylor Brown was All Conference in 2011-12
Walt Lemon was All Conference in 2012-13
Dyricus Simms-Edwards was the Defensive Player of the Year in 2012-13
Walt Lemon was All Conference in 2013-14
Plus, Will Egolf was the only center in the last 16 years to average double figures.
That is not a bad core of players to inherit.

JL inherited Danny Granger for 1 semester. He left mid-season.
He also inherited Gillingham, Gilbert, and Robinson. They were good players, and Gilbert and Gillingham both were All-MVC their senior years (Gillingham 2nd team, Gilbert Honorable Mention).
By the way, by year 3, JL already had a 1st team All MVC player that he had recruited (Sommerville), plus several more who would eventually become All-MVC.

I would say you could make an argument both ways for which coach inherited the most. If Granger had stayed, perhaps JL would have had the advantage. But since he didn't, IMO Geno inherited more talent and clearly inherited more total scoring, more All-MVC players, plus a Defensive POY. Also, the talent Geno inherited carried him for 3 years, while JL did not inherit anyone who was a factor into his 3rd season, and had stocked his team by year 3 and 4 with multiple All-MVC players of his own, while we have yet to see that happen with any of Geno's recruits.
 
No, it's aimed at people who are hypocritical. I never brought up JL's name. They were quick to want to talk about "Time for a Change" when a coach was winning 22 games a year, winning NCAA games, placing multiple players on the All MVC teams every year, raising record revenues for the athletic department, and filling the Civic Center for every game. Now those same people think we need several more years.

I am not the one who constantly brings up Jim Les as some kind of justification for accepting a failed program now when massive amounts of money was spent and a high standard was set with the promises made, none of which has happened. Sorry, I hate to keep repeating the predictions I made, and pointing out how every one of them had been proven true, but some people keep denying the fallout and remain oblivious to how bad things are.

Just sayin'...if some people predicted so many things that proved to be accurate, I think an intelligent person might want to stop trying to rip them and find some tiny fault, and maybe start listening to them.
 
While this has been going on for the last four years, I still don't understand why the program is constantly compared to the Jim Les era. He was 154-140 overall and 74-88 in the MVC. His last two seasons they were 16-15 and 12-20 in years 8 and 9 of his tenure. That gets most coaches fired.
 
can you name another head coach besides JL who got fired for their first losing season over a six-year span and their first and only losing season in a nine year tenure - after having all their own players recruited and who never had a single losing season in which all his assistants were actually of his own choosing?
 
can you name another head coach besides JL who got fired for their first losing season over a six-year span and their first and only losing season in a nine year tenure - after having all their own players recruited and who never had a single losing season in which all his assistants were actually of his own choosing?

+1
 
can you name another head coach besides JL who got fired for their first losing season over a six-year span and their first and only losing season in a nine year tenure - after having all their own players recruited and who never had a single losing season in which all his assistants were actually of his own choosing?

Quin Snyder at Missouri comes close.
 
While this has been going on for the last four years, I still don't understand why the program is constantly compared to the Jim Les era. He was 154-140 overall and 74-88 in the MVC. His last two seasons they were 16-15 and 12-20 in years 8 and 9 of his tenure. That gets most coaches fired.

Geno's last 2 seasons were 18-17 and 12-20. Just sayin'... :)


But in reality, even our administration said they did not consider the 2010-11 season when Jim was strapped with the loss of 2 All-MVC starters for the season. So lets please stop using that season as a justification.
So he was basically fired after 5 winning seasons in a row with 102 wins over that span (over 20 wins per season) and numerous quality wins over BCS teams, not to mention the greatest NCAA tournament success in over 50 years. Plus his teams set records for academic successes, and he helped bring in record donations and revenues, which Bradley has not come close to since. It's all pretty much a memory now.

I am not saying bring him back. We are well past that point, and Jim is happy to be gone. But IMO, it was not a well thought out plan. The search and hiring process turned into a circus, we ended up hiring our 7th or 8th choice, not to mention the tremendous damage done by the administration's decision to fight him over the remaining salary he had coming.

But we all know why he was fired. His bosses didn't like him personally, and wanted to remake the basketball program, and athletics in general over in their own image. How is that that working so far? (37-62 and no quality wins in 3 years, and projected for 9th place)
 
Quin Snyder at Missouri comes close.
well, not really - Snyder's firing was mid-season and had more to do with controversy, rules-breaking, an NCAA investigation, player mutiny, and of course a major league personality rift between him and his AD.
But even if you want to count Snyder - I think my point is clear - if you are going to say JL was fired because he failed to win to your satisfaction - then you'd have to concede he still won more consistently over his final 6 years at BU than just about anyone we could have possibly expected to have hired to replace him - and we are finding that out now the HARD way.

IF Bradley chooses again at any time in the near future - to find a new head coach, then I sure hope we do not use the same manner of selection nor the same people who make the decision, as I think they had their turn and have severely failed to deliver.
 
One can point out 4 straight 20-win seasons for Les.

One can also point out the program regressed in results for 5 straight years following the '06 campaign.

One can point out it's very rare for a coach to get fired after a sub-.500 season when he was above .500 the previous 5 years.

One can also point out how rare it is for a coach to survive at a school for a 10th year when he hasn't cracked the top 30-percentile of the conference standings.

One can point out the absurdity of calling two of those seasons 20-win seasons when new postseason tournaments, not existing in previous years, were responsible for 2 of those.

The arguments can go both ways. They should. Everyone is painting an incomplete picture of the resume.

And I point this out also because of Geno - I don't find the positives (yet) that the previous coach had. Give him this year to work towards it. If we're not close at the end of this year...
 
but the main point is that we took a really bad turn form bad to worse - and at some point I'd love to see some agreement that we should stop pretending we didn't...
nobody's arguing to rehire JL - just that we need to learn from our past actions and NOT allow this horrible 4-year scenario to happen again
 
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