I didn't know for sure DC so I checked the archives
It was a 4 pt game with the regular rotation....O was 6-14 with 17 pts and 10 rebounds...
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Who would you rather have?
- Thread starter mexicobufan
- Start date
I didn't know for sure DC so I checked the archives
It was a 4 pt game with the regular rotation....O was 6-14 with 17 pts and 10 rebounds...
I'm not argueing OE's ability like others in this thread Danny but I WOULD dispute this one thought. I would offer Brown just might go higher becuas the NBA is almost all about potential these days when it comes to the draft.
TB, IMO, has a MUCH higher ceiling then OE does. Not saying he won't get better but we have generally seen what OE can do.
TB is a few games into his Soph. season and has stats, save for ppg. equal to or better in most all other category's.
Both will probably be European players but right now I would give TB the edge on any sustained success in the NBA.
JMHO
BradleyBrave
New member
I would rather have OE. He can make FTs.
Last year (where they had enough opportunities, obviously TB has not been hot this year), OE shot .7% better from the line.
BTW... AMAZING site for stats: http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/bradley/taylor-brown
Braves4Life
New member
As much as I like to rip OE you are right about him wanting the ball and being a dynamic player. There are very few players like this. I think it is sad that OE has probably NOT lived up to his potential; I think he has the skills to be a really great player. I think with the right team and coaching he could have been a Hersey Hawkins-type player. For whatever reason this has not (and will not, IMO) happened. OE (with good coaching) could have been the scoring leader that this BU team needed. He'd be like a very talented, quicker, taller Maniscalco (as far as being a leader). Can you imagine having two confident leaders like this in your back court? I think it would bring back memories of Hawkins/Les.
Based on where these players are at today I'd take OE. However, the fact that TB has more time to continue to improve is really exciting. Let's face it, OE HAS NOT lived up to his tremendous potential. TB still may:!:
As much as I like to rip OE you are right about him wanting the ball and being a dynamic player. There are very few players like this. I think it is sad that OE has probably NOT lived up to his potential; I think he has the skills to be a really great player. I think with the right team and coaching he could have been a Hersey Hawkins-type player. For whatever reason this has not (and will not, IMO) happened. OE (with good coaching) could have been the scoring leader that this BU team needed. He'd be like a very talented, quicker, taller Maniscalco (as far as being a leader). Can you imagine having two confident leaders like this in your back court? I think it would bring back memories of Hawkins/Les.
Based on where these players are at today I'd take OE. However, the fact that TB has more time to continue to improve is really exciting. Let's face it, OE HAS NOT lived up to his tremendous potential. TB still may:!:
I think he's more talented than anyone on BU, but I do not think he has the leadership of SM, or the BBall IQ of a guy like Dodie. He would have made BU better, no doubt. But I still maintain I would have disliked him.
Imagine if Ruff went to ISU? You probably would have felt the same way about him as you do with OE. I would bet you if possible if OE was a Brave you would love him, even his hair cut!;-)
Danny Cooksey, I understand that you feel the compulsion to be the guardian of anything said against ISU here. But to suggest that it isn't relevant to bring up the defensive shortcomings of Osiris Eldridge is laughable. I would love to see him play in the NBA. The MVC needs all the visibility it can get.
OE got a number of workouts with NBA people last summer, and was told by every one of them to forget about entering the 2009 draft and go back to school. They told him he wasn't an NBA player, and the main reason was his inability to defend. He was advised to develop his point guard skills and try again next summer. But I don't see him as a point guard, either.
The knocks on Osiris Eldridge's defense by NBA scouts are perfectly appropriate for this discussion. If he doesn't get a chance in the NBA, it will be primarily because of his deficiencies on defense.
OE got a number of workouts with NBA people last summer, and was told by every one of them to forget about entering the 2009 draft and go back to school. They told him he wasn't an NBA player, and the main reason was his inability to defend. He was advised to develop his point guard skills and try again next summer. But I don't see him as a point guard, either.
The knocks on Osiris Eldridge's defense by NBA scouts are perfectly appropriate for this discussion. If he doesn't get a chance in the NBA, it will be primarily because of his deficiencies on defense.
Amp you got me! Ruff also frustrated the hell out of me sometimes but I loved his attitude just like if OE was a Brave I'd tolerate his arrogance. Since he is not a Brave I'll admire his skills but root against him. The kid has skills no matter how you look at it. He reminds me of a poor mans Monta Ellis. Ellis btw is 6'3" and played the 2 for the GSW. When they drafted Stephan Curry they moved him over to the 1. OE can make make it to the NBA but he'll have to bulk up a bit in order to be able to man up better at that level. Someone will give him a chance in on the right team and system he could stick.
Since Taylor Brown's best play is ahead of him because he's just a sophomore, and IMO OE has already peaked at what he's capable of doing, it's difficult to compare them. I do think TB will be All MVC by his junior year, and maybe POY-type player.
Nonetheless, I'll give my opinion on which player I would rather have.
If I had a team with limited talent, and not many scorers, then I'd take Eldridge, because his offense can keep you in a game.
But if I had a team that had some decent talent, and was a potential NCAA tournament team, I'd rather have Brown, because he plays a position that's a lot harder to find a quality player, he plays great at both ends of the court, and is more of a team player.
Nonetheless, I'll give my opinion on which player I would rather have.
If I had a team with limited talent, and not many scorers, then I'd take Eldridge, because his offense can keep you in a game.
But if I had a team that had some decent talent, and was a potential NCAA tournament team, I'd rather have Brown, because he plays a position that's a lot harder to find a quality player, he plays great at both ends of the court, and is more of a team player.
I agree with Da_Coach 100%. If TB can develop a consistent 3 pt shot and a few moves with his back to the basket in the paint to go with his already short jumper and tenacious nose for the ball, watch out MVC. He's not that far from reaching the next plateau in his evolution of playing ball. BTW...All the great players in the NBA make a living hitting the mid-range jumper. They maybe able to hit the 3 but their game consists of driving to the rim and stopping and popping. TB has that ability IMHO. OE has the ability to be a role player in the next level and probably not much beyond.
tornado
New member
-OE is one of the best MVC players, I am glad he is in the valley and I think if he controls his desire to shoot every time he gets the ball, he's a very good player and a plus to whatever team he's on.
-The Valley needs to get as many players in the NBA as possible, so I am rooting for him.
Have you not seen ME and me alone touting all the Valley players who have made it to the NBA??
http://bradleyfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9969
-in my only other post in this thread I laid out simple and precise data, scoring numbers, and facts and said...
"difficult comparison...
I'd be curious how they'd do if facing comparable opponents..."
I made no attempt to place Taylor Brown over OE nor did I claim one was better than another...I left that to the reader.
-then regarding the above quoted comment that Adebayo Akinkunle was deficient offensively...
he didn't play much as a freshman and soph but as a junior averaged 12.4 ppg and as a senior averaged 15.4 ppg - ending his career with well over 1000 points and lots of rebounds as well...going on to a long, fine pro career.
BTW Akinkunle scored more points in his career than either Tolliver or Dilligard, but nice try with the Alzheimerish memory!
DannyCooksey
New member
Coach. I wish you'd answer my question.
Again.......The ORIGINAL debate. ORIGINAL DEBATE was Brown vs OE. Correct???
THE DEBATE WAS NOT OE's NBA PROSPECTS!!!!!!!!!
The only FAIR way to compare the two (Brown and OE) is to base any comparison on what they've achieved to this point in the Valley. Is that fair or not? If that's not fair then maybe the original comparison should never have been made in the 1st place.
Therefore.....it is NOT FAIR to bring up OE's defense as it applies to the NBA. That has nothing to do with what his defense is like in the Valley. Furthermore it has nothing to do with basis of this thread.
THESE ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT POINTS
For the NBA.......they say his defense needs work. I will defer to those scouts because they know more than I do. I assume they are correct.
For the Valley........they say he's 1st team all-defense. That's voted on by the media and coaches and I also assume they know more than I do.
If his defense is so bad in COLLEGE.........HOW DID HE MAKE THE VALLEY ALL-DEFENSIVE TEAM???? Are you suggesting that the awards in this league are tainted and undeserved?
So............when you compare Brown vs. OE..........NBA scouting reports are IRRELEVANT. One player has an NBA scouting report and the other player does not.
HOWEVER..........they both have Mo Valley 'scouting reports'. With that in mind.......OE's defense BASED ON WHAT HE'S DONE AND PROVEN AS A DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN THIS LEAGUE gives him a decided edge as a player over BRown and I'm not counting his offense because we all agree OE is far superior.
I agree that Brown looks good but he's an infant in his development. If he works hard......he could achieve some good things. Time will tell. He has upside.
As for me feeling the compulsion to defend anything ISU---that's not true at all. Our schedule gets trashed daily/hourly on this forum (you even said today you never pass an opportunity to trash the ISU slate) and not once have I defended it. Our attendance is trashed weekly on here and I don't defend that either so I think you're embellishing quite a bit.
I am simply trying to see if you have the ability to compare apples to apples. I know you do!!
I am simply trying to stay in keeping with the integrity and intention of the thread which was to compare OE vs. Brown.DannyCooksey
New member
I stand corrected on Akinkunle's offensive output. Those were some marginal bu teams and he's all they had in those years so congrats to him on the numbers. Doesn't change the fact that it's absurd to assume that offensive output influences a defensive award. It's not like the Gold Glove awards in MLB. That's all I was trying to say.
Nightmare made the 1st team all-defense last year and he averaged just over 8 points per game. Perhaps he's a better and more recent example.
I contend it is MUCH like golden gloves in the NBA, great offense doesn't guarantee a spot, but it sure as heck helps. Case in point, Dodie Dunson. You honestly think OE is a better defender than DD? OE isn't bad, for MVC, but he isn't an All-MVC defensive caliber player.
Just look at the players that got it:
Theron Wilson - BU's best offensive player
OE - ILSU's 2nd best offensive player
Kwadzo - UNI's best offensive player
Odie - ILSU's 3rd best offensive player
Mullins was also a scorer (3rd best option?)
Coach. I wish you'd answer my question.
Again.......The ORIGINAL debate. ORIGINAL DEBATE was Brown vs OE. Correct???
THE DEBATE WAS NOT OE's NBA PROSPECTS!!!!!!!!!
The only FAIR way to compare the two (Brown and OE) is to base any comparison on what they've achieved to this point in the Valley. Is that fair or not? If that's not fair then maybe the original comparison should never have been made in the 1st place.
Therefore.....it is NOT FAIR to bring up OE's defense as it applies to the NBA. That has nothing to do with what his defense is like in the Valley. Furthermore it has nothing to do with basis of this thread.
THESE ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT POINTS
For the NBA.......they say his defense needs work. I will defer to those scouts because they know more than I do. I assume they are correct.
For the Valley........they say he's 1st team all-defense. That's voted on by the media and coaches and I also assume they know more than I do.
If his defense is so bad in COLLEGE.........HOW DID HE MAKE THE VALLEY ALL-DEFENSIVE TEAM???? Are you suggesting that the awards in this league are tainted and undeserved?
So............when you compare Brown vs. OE..........NBA scouting reports are IRRELEVANT. One player has an NBA scouting report and the other player does not.
HOWEVER..........they both have Mo Valley 'scouting reports'. With that in mind.......OE's defense BASED ON WHAT HE'S DONE AND PROVEN AS A DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN THIS LEAGUE gives him a decided edge as a player over BRown and I'm not counting his offense because we all agree OE is far superior.
I agree that Brown looks good but he's an infant in his development. If he works hard......he could achieve some good things. Time will tell. He has upside.
As for me feeling the compulsion to defend anything ISU---that's not true at all. Our schedule gets trashed daily/hourly on this forum (you even said today you never pass an opportunity to trash the ISU slate) and not once have I defended it. Our attendance is trashed weekly on here and I don't defend that either so I think you're embellishing quite a bit.
I am simply trying to see if you have the ability to compare apples to apples. I know you do!!
First, neither I nor anyone else here is under any obligation to answer any questions. And I did give my opinions above. Just because you don't like them, doesn't mean I have to answer to you. So please stop being so annoying, and just read and accept what I and the others here have said, and stop badgering us.
Despite what you would like to believe, there are certain facts that I believe any intelligent and experienced observer of basketball can see. One of them is that Osiris isn't big enough and doesn't play good enough defense to play in the NBA. I hope he does, but I don't believe he will.
I also don't think he will ever play in an NCAA game. I hope I am wrong, but as good as you and ISU fans think he is, why hasn't he?
And who said anything here about ISU's attendance? Now you are really stretching things.