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Wisconsin-Parkside at Bradley Sat. 11/3 1 PM

tornado said:
Wily - I am 100% pro Bradley and I support this team & coaches as much as anyone...
but I am pointing out FACTS -- that JL was criticized right from the start...and yet despite the criticisms - he had key players like Ruffin & Cellus in year 2, and had POB signed in Nov. of 2003..
There are NO criticisms of the current coaches...the media is drooling with praise constantly - and yet we have a few problems NOW that were not even close in 2003 & 2004...namely the massive loss of the fan base despite the assists from the press...even the ones who wanted these changes - they're mostly goners........they got the housecleaning they wanted now their seats are empty.
I want to see the wins but I also want to see the crowds - it hurts to see the empty swaths of seats.
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1.) I know your 100% pro Bradley
2.) JL was not criticized for his coaching but for his lack of coaching experience .Fair or not you be the judge.
3.) Bringing Ruff & Cellus had alot more to do with Jim's alliance with C. Buesh and hiring him brought us our best years in Jim's tenure. Again you be the judge as to why we had our best teams when CB was on our staff. When he left..... well you know our results.
4.) The loss of the fan base does concern me but it's nothing that won't be changed by WINS.
5.) Not sure why the media was brought into your post. They have nothing to do with the lack of people in the seats. WIN AND THEY WILL COME. Alot of people thought Phil T. had alot to do with Coach MO getting the axe but the people came back when we had the several good teams with CB on our staff and they will be back when we start winning.
6.) I want to see the 9,000 plus crowds to and I don't think it's to far away. Maybe not this year but shortly.I say I support Geno and his staff and there are no lines to read between here.
 
shaunguth said:
Speaking of NW. I wonder how long people will allow Geno to "waste a scholarship" if he doesn't contribute anything this year or next. Some people believe we didn't have a D-1 player on the roster last season and they should have been run off, especially MK. Just curious how long those people will give NW to contribute in a significant manner.
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Most of those people have gone on record as saying they don't expect major contributions from NW until at least his junior year. More have said senior year. I think people are willing to give a big guy, who is deemed a project, more time than a small forward. Milos was probably unfairly hyped by his coach, the press, Snell, and others as a player with huge potential as a three point threat. Because of that hype most believe that he has been a huge disappointment; a wasted scholarship.
 
Braves4Life said:
Most of those people have gone on record as saying they don't expect major contributions from NW until at least his junior year. More have said senior year. I think people are willing to give a big guy, who is deemed a project, more time than a small forward. Milos was probably unfairly hyped by his coach, the press, Snell, and others as a player with huge potential as a three point threat. Because of that hype most believe that he has been a huge disappointment; a wasted scholarship.
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So now those people are willing to wait until a player's 4th or 5th year with the program?

Interesting. :roll:
 
shaunguth said:
Speaking of NW. I wonder how long people will allow Geno to "waste a scholarship" if he doesn't contribute anything this year or next. Some people believe we didn't have a D-1 player on the roster last season and they should have been run off, especially MK. Just curious how long those people will give NW to contribute in a significant manner.
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I guess I'm missing something that you see. I don't see NW helping us this year but I see alot of potential. I'd like to see him get a few minutes each game this year and maybe he'll contribute some next season. Remember a guy named Abayo, he wasn't much help until his second semesiter his Jr. year. I think we'll get more help from Nate b4 that. Or at least I hope so.
 
wily coyote said:
I guess I'm missing something that you see. I don't see NW helping us this year but I see alot of potential. I'd like to see him get a few minutes each game this year and maybe he'll contribute some next season. Remember a guy named Abayo, he wasn't much help until his second semesiter his Jr. year. I think we'll get mor help from Nate b4 that. Or at least I hope so.
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I hope so too and like everything I've heard about the kid. I was just wondering how long people would allow for the "wasted scholarship" if he does not produce.
 
By reading this thread, I figured Bradley lost by 6 to a division 2 team in an exhibition game. Turns out the team won by 28.

No one has brought up one of the real problems of attendance. The season ticket base has the average age of your typical Buick customer. A lot of season tickets have been given up over the last few seasons because these folks are turning into snowbirds.

It makes it hard to fill those spots, let alone grow the numbers, when the team has been as terrible as it has for the last 3 years.

A lot of people are still leery about the economy. A few years ago a couple thousand on Bradley season tickets might not have been as big of a sacrifice as it is now.

In my line of work I talk to a lot of fans. The vast majority are unhappy with the losing but can understand that it will take some time to rebuild from the empty cupboard that Geno inherited.

Bottom line is that when Bradley starts winning games the demand for tickets will return.
 
Braves4Life said:
Why you may find this so surprising is that NW was a Les recruit...

Reality: It was never about Jim Les.
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I don't really care who's recruit it is. People complain about wasted scholarships and then all of a sudden they are willing to wait until a player's 4th or 5th year?
 
bu fan 9 said:
I'm not willing to wait. If they can't play by year 2 send them packing this is business.
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I don't really agree with "send them packing" and I would give them a couple years to play before sitting them down and letting the player know it might be a good idea to look at other options. If the player decides to stay, then I wouldn't want to force them out. At that point, the coaching staff may want to improve their evaluation and development of the talent.
 
JMM28 said:
No one has brought up one of the real problems of attendance.
The season ticket base has the average age of your typical Buick customer.
A lot of season tickets have been given up over the last few seasons because these folks are turning into snowbirds. ...
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the scenario you describe is exactly the same as it has been since the 1960's --you act like we suddenly find ourselves with an aging fan base...but those are the exact people who have always been very loyal - coming to every game.

BUT now those "blue hairs" are all leaving - did you not see it Saturday -- half the lower bowl was deserted - those are the blue hairs, the big money people...they feel alienated...
I have never seen it like that...
even the most OBSCURE Presbyterians and Plattevilles still brought out lots more loyal fans...



JMM28 said:
.. The vast majority are unhappy with the losing but can understand that it will take some time.
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this is where you and I see the evidence quite differently - as I pointed out earlier - the LOSING did NOT result in crowds of 3500 back the last time we had several really bad years in a row and ran out one guy and hired another...
You seem to think that whenever a team has a couple losing years the crowds will shrink like this. And I know you are old enough to recall the Joe Stowell era...and what you describe DID NOT happen with
the changeovers of Versace, Molinari, Les - and NOT EVEN with Albeck!! There was no downer period than the last few years of Albeck & Mo's first couple and in Mo's 2nd year - still we never had a crowd as pitiful as we did Saturday.
 
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Tornado is right that was a pitiful crowd Sat afternoon,but b4 we jump off that cliff why don't we wait and see what Fri. night brings. It's the season opener and I'm betting the crowd will be much better. The opposition maybe not but no football and I'm hoping for at least 6,000 real people in the seats.
 
I'm sorry, but I just don't see how a simple changing of coaches (in many sports) can cause these vast problems that you talk about tornado. I believe there are other factors at work. Just ike the economy and country, I happen to think things are different this time around. That next generation that has always filled in and replaced the blue hairs is broke, out of work, and scared to spend. This is the first generation that is not better off than their parents and I believe that we are seeing some of the effects of this. There are other factors involved as well, such as losing and a shift in what this younger generation perceives as "entertainment". Bradley really does need to study this phenomenon before we end up playing ALL of our games on campus at the RC.
 
I know this is a long-shot but lets move this conversation forward. The problem of attendance I'm sure can be traced back to a few of the attributes everyone has mentioned. The cure is winning, creating an atmosphere for the community and getting the students to realize that there are fellow students who would greatly appreciate their support.
 
Gary the Gargoyle said:
For a kid who is 7' 1", yes. For a kid who is 5' 10", no.
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What about 6'8"?

Not sure I understand if someone says a scholarship is being wasted, why it would be acceptable to wait until year 4 or 5 just because the player is 7'1". Besides, I'm pretty sure these things were being said about AT as well as MK. What has changed?
 
Loved to see BU come out and dominate. They likely could of won by 50 points if they wanted to and is a definite improvement over last season.

Perhaps the lower attendance was due to the 1-2,000 at the Disney play going on in the theater LOL. At least it wasn't as bad as the Rivermen game last Thursday night. Advertised attendance was 3,300 or so, but I would guess 1,000 at the most from this pic taken late in the 1st period...

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...02978792.15481.100000839602735&type=1&theater
 
shaunguth said:
What about 6'8"?

Not sure I understand if someone says a scholarship is being wasted, why it would be acceptable to wait until year 4 or 5 just because the player is 7'1". Besides, I'm pretty sure these things were being said about AT as well as MK. What has changed?
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What's not to understand? People are more patient with the development of a7' 1" center.
 
People are not just tired of losing. They are tired of losing badly. How many games over the last few years have their been when we just got our butts kicked. People eventually get tired of watching it. Just look at the Cubs. For the 1st time in quite awaile the Cubs didn't draw over 3 million at Wrigley. People are tired of paying good money to watch a bad product. Once we start becomming more competitive people will start coming back out. Once we start winning, and I believe we will, over 10,000 peole in attendance will be the norm not the exception.
 
Braves4Life said:
I'm sorry, but I just don't see how a simple changing of coaches (in many sports) can cause these vast problems that you talk about tornado. I believe there are other factors at work. ...
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I think you know I also concur with the "other factors" philosophy...
 
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