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BU at a Crossroads

BradleyJD said:
I really debated on posting about BU and the state of the program. In fact, I have stayed away completely from posting for quite a while because I did not want to dwell on the negatives.

I found it interesting reading Dave's article in the paper today, which basically showed his own struggle with reporting and discussing the negative state of things at Bradley.

My thoughts, for what they are worth:

I have a really difficult time watching the product that Bradley is putting on the floor.

I do not know how I could be any more of a "Bradley" guy. I grew with a parent who worked at Bradley. I am one of 7 children who attended Bradley. I worked at Bradley before I was in college, while I was in college, and even after I graduated from college. I've gone to 95% of the home games since I was old enough to remember them. I have gone to the Valley tournament almost every year it's been in St. Louis. I even went several times before it was in St. Louis.

That said, I am absolutely, 100%, concerned about where this program is headed. To me, we are beyond the crossroad and headed downhill, without breaks.

I realize we have had injuries. I know we didn't have the best facilities for many years. I realize that being a smaller, private school with "limited" resources plays some part in limiting our capabilities.

However, I also believe in accountability. I believe that, at some point, you have to WIN games. I believe there has to be considerable, noticeable, concrete signs of improvement and development.

I have struggled to find any signs of growth. Any signs of hope.

Where is the development of players? Why do we seemingly have no offense? Why do Bradley players not know how to set screens? Seriously, watch BU's screens for an entire game...they never set a quality screen to open a teammate.

To me, we are way past the crossroads. This is closer to an end-game, IMO.

I wish and hope that I am wrong, but it's not looking good.
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I supported Les for years but I really don"t think if he even gets better talent that he can win championships, our fundamentals stink , I really believed that we had a chance to win 23 games this season but when we lost Taylor and then Sam I thought we could still finish at least 5th or 6th, J.D. is correct in everything he has said and in order for BU to improve a change needs to be made.
 
I was and am not expecting a good win and loss record this year after TB and SM went down but what I want to see is how this team competes and improves throughout the season into St. Louis. That to me will be my determination on JL's season. He has zero control over the injuries but a coach does have control on how his team competes and if not well something has to change.
 
All I can say is I hope and pray BU has NO INJURIES next year AND finishes either 1st or 2nd with an NCAA appearance, OR, 8th -10th in the Valley.

This act needs a better reason for yet another encore, or, the curtain brought down.
 
thefish7 said:
I struggle also in about the same way. If only we lived in the real no-excuse world where we get to "reasonably" ask the question, "why didn't Les have a plan B to Taylor Brown?" The answer, very obviously, is that midmajors almost never have a scrapheap full of mismatch forwards with an excellent mix of skills, shooting, athleticism, and raw talent. I'm not a member of either of the big factions that have developed on our board. I don't at all think anyone who posts on here isn't a fan or something. But I'm as tired of the Les is the Root of All Evil crowd as I am the University Never Does Wrong crowd. Both have an agenda.

Regarding my own opinions on the coach, I can't figure out how to evaluate this season at this point. That was an awful game last night, and I hated watching it. I think some of that was coaching, I think some of it was the players, I think some of it was bad luck. I don't think Jim Les is a great coach and I don't think he's the best recruiter of all time. Coming into this season, I considered him to be average or a bit above. If I combine that with his obvious love and ambition for the alma mater and the fact that he's probably "underpaid" (believe his pay is no better than average for our league) for his performance he hasn't been an awful situation for us.

If I thought Bradley was going to throw up some big money to get a top up and comer or solid mid career guy I would be less predisposed against a change if the season turns out like it looks like it will. Problem is, I don't think we will put up that kind of money, so I don't feel confident that what we get will be better... And I do think that will put the program back a couple of years-- loss of incoming recruiting class (a class I happen to think is a very good one) and incompatibility of current personnel to new system as reasons for setback.

As for this season and my preseason expectations, injuries, for a midmajor like us, are an excuse. TB is the kind of player you just don't replace. SM is maybe a bit more replaceable, from a talent standpoint, but not from an intangibles one. The coach can't use that excuse, for sure, but fans who are unwilling to adjust expectations when you lose 2/3 of your star players are either foolish or have something else in mind (positioning for the end of the Les era). That doesn't mean anyone has to like losing, I sure don't. I don't begrudge anyone who had already decided that they thought Les isn't the man for the job their opinion, I just haven't decided yet... And I can't even figure out how I'm judging that going forward. If our next 16 games are like the one last night, I think that'll be disappointing... One thing I'm sure of, I won't be judging the team's performance by my preseason expectations... But like TAS, I haven't managed to figure out what my criteria actually is.
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One of the best posts I have read in a long time! But my one point of disagreement stems around how many wins is acceptable. Losing home games to mediocre teams like SIU and EIU are games we should not be losing no matter how shorthanded we are. And the fact that our fundamentals are so poor does not reflect well on Les.

Sure we lose some games we should win without TB and SM. But a well coached team well versed on fundamentals such as setting screens, making short shots and simply holding onto the ball should be able to overcome at least a few of those losses even without the best players available. This is one attribute Les seems to lack, and this an attribute that will go a long way towards whatever decision the administration makes regarding his future at the end of the season.
 
Da Coach said:
I don't agree. A healthy Sammy would make a huge difference in running the offense and creating better shots for everyone. By playing DD out of position at point guard we negate his strongest attributes, and he becomes a non-scorer.
And if we had TB, that makes a big difference in rebounding (he was our best rebounder), as well as inside scoring (what we lack the most).
We are talking about 2 preseason All-MVC players. I think if we added their close to 30 ppg and 10 rpg this team is a contender for the MVC.
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Agreed, but as I alluded to in my above post, a fundamentally sound team should have been able to beat average teams like EIU and SIU at home even without our best players playing. I believe we have enough talented players remaining who can be taught better fundamentals and chemistry in order to overcome some of the losses. And I stress the importance of fundamentals in light of the fact that our injuries don't explain how the remaining players continue to miss short layups and continue to throw the ball away all the time. That IMO has a lot less to do with injuries and more with to do with carelessness, something the coaches need to address even more, if they haven't already.
 
SFP said:
I was and am not expecting a good win and loss record this year after TB and SM went down but what I want to see is how this team competes and improves throughout the season into St. Louis. That to me will be my determination on JL's season. He has zero control over the injuries but a coach does have control on how his team competes and if not well something has to change.
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Ditto from me (see my above posts).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Coach
I don't agree. A healthy Sammy would make a huge difference in running the offense and creating better shots for everyone. By playing DD out of position at point guard we negate his strongest attributes, and he becomes a non-scorer.
And if we had TB, that makes a big difference in rebounding (he was our best rebounder), as well as inside scoring (what we lack the most).
We are talking about 2 preseason All-MVC players. I think if we added their close to 30 ppg and 10 rpg this team is a contender for the MVC.

I can't believe that we still have supporters for JL. The Sweet 16 was a fluke. We have been mediocre at best since JL took over. How many times has it been " next year is the year". SM & TB would have helped; but that's all. An aggressive defender stops SM just like AW. TB at 6'6" is going to get tired playing the whole game to try and give us a chance to compete. JL never has a good enough bench to make the "1st string" better. If SM & TB were playing our bigs would still be sitting on the bench. I stated before the season started that a year of experience doesn't make our players better. It makes them a year older. Please quit making excuses for JL!
 
fansince55 said:
I can't believe that we still have supporters for JL. The Sweet 16 was a fluke. We have been mediocre at best since JL took over. How many times has it been " next year is the year". SM & TB would have helped; but that's all. An aggressive defender stops SM just like AW. TB at 6'6" is going to get tired playing the whole game to try and give us a chance to compete. JL never has a good enough bench to make the "1st string" better. If SM & TB were playing our bigs would still be sitting on the bench. I stated before the season started that a year of experience doesn't make our players better. It makes them a year older. Please quit making excuses for JL!
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I have not been a big fan of Les, but I completely disagree with your reasoning. In Maniscalco and Brown you are talking about the loss of 2 All MVC preseason picks. Does an aggressive defender stop SM just like AW? Yes, but most teams don't have 2 or 3 shut down defenders. Having TB, SM and AW all on the floor at the same time makes teams pick their poison as to who they want to try to lock down. This also moves Dodie back to what he is best at, being the 4th option who mainly goes unnoticed, hovering the wings and hitting open 3's. For anyone to think losing what may have been our two best players (I say may have been our two best because Warren is showing he definitely deserves to be in the discussion) has not had a HUGE impact that will devastate the season is fooling themselves. Take Felton and Stoudemire off the Knicks and what do you have? Take Rose and Boozer off the Bulls, take Kidd and Nowitzki off the Mavericks, Parker and Duncan off the Spurs, I think you get the point.
 
I thought it was interesting listening to the SIU pregame where their announcer said SIU's problem was over-recruiting after their s-16. They went out of their system to get offensive minded players, they got a highly ranked class, and it bombed for SIU.

I think we've gone through a similar adjustment, recruiting potential 4 stars that don't show up, and spending too much time recruiting nationally/internationally, when really we should be getting the stable (but less flashy) more local workhorses you can build a program on, guys like JP DSE...if our staff has had that realization, then yes I do think we have a future to be good and solid under JL.
 
fansince55 said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Coach
I don't agree. A healthy Sammy would make a huge difference in running the offense and creating better shots for everyone. By playing DD out of position at point guard we negate his strongest attributes, and he becomes a non-scorer.
And if we had TB, that makes a big difference in rebounding (he was our best rebounder), as well as inside scoring (what we lack the most).
We are talking about 2 preseason All-MVC players. I think if we added their close to 30 ppg and 10 rpg this team is a contender for the MVC.

I can't believe that we still have supporters for JL. The Sweet 16 was a fluke. We have been mediocre at best since JL took over. How many times has it been " next year is the year". SM & TB would have helped; but that's all. An aggressive defender stops SM just like AW. TB at 6'6" is going to get tired playing the whole game to try and give us a chance to compete. JL never has a good enough bench to make the "1st string" better. If SM & TB were playing our bigs would still be sitting on the bench. I stated before the season started that a year of experience doesn't make our players better. It makes them a year older. Please quit making excuses for JL!
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You dont win NCAA games against Kansas and Pittsburg on a "fluke". That Bradley team had a ton of talent.

That said that team struggled bigtime for a large portion of the schedule.

Anyway, If Jim Les is head coach I support him and when he leaves Ill support the next head coach. I just want Bradley to compete and win games.

Regardless, watching this brand of Bradley Basketball not just this season but last season with Maniscalco and Brown I am convinced the entire program is in desparate need of a new voice and energy. It is just like the last year of Mo. The year was a complete struggle and by the end we all knew it was over. I will never forget watching us get rolled by SIU in Mo's last game and the look he had while he sat on the bench in STL.

Les had the same look at home v SIU. Almost of I have no idea how to fix this and its getting worse. The worst part of this team is the pure lack of fundamentals, from simply shooting the ball to setting screens to moving without the ball... we look like a lost program.

I really am thankful for the success of the Bradley program since 2006. The NCAA games, the NIT, even the games v Tulsa were a lot of fun. But today its not fun, its dull and its losing interest everyday.
 
buballer82 said:
I have not been a big fan of Les, but I completely disagree with your reasoning. In Maniscalco and Brown you are talking about the loss of 2 All MVC preseason picks. Does an aggressive defender stop SM just like AW? Yes, but most teams don't have 2 or 3 shut down defenders. .
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How many times have we had 2-3 strong preseason all-conference candidates this decade? They all haven't been hurt. What's our best finish?
 
Apologies to Eric Clapton

BU at a Crossroads

I went down to the PC Center, fell down on my knees.
I went down to the PC Center, fell down on my knees.
Asked the lord above for mercy, save BU if you please.

I went down to the PC Center, tried to see a BU win.
I went down to the PC Center, tried to see a BU win.
Nobody gave us a chance, everyone in the MVC passed us by again.

I'm going down to St Louis, take in the play in games.
I'm going down to St Louis, take in the play in games.
You can still have a post game party, baby, if BU goes up in flames.

They can run, they can run, but they can't make a shot go down
They can run, they can run, but they can't make a shot go down
And they're standing at the crossroads, believe BU's sinking down
 
buballer82 said:
I have not been a big fan of Les, but I completely disagree with your reasoning. In Maniscalco and Brown you are talking about the loss of 2 All MVC preseason picks. Does an aggressive defender stop SM just like AW? Yes, but most teams don't have 2 or 3 shut down defenders. Having TB, SM and AW all on the floor at the same time makes teams pick their poison as to who they want to try to lock down. This also moves Dodie back to what he is best at, being the 4th option who mainly goes unnoticed, hovering the wings and hitting open 3's. For anyone to think losing what may have been our two best players (I say may have been our two best because Warren is showing he definitely deserves to be in the discussion) has not had a HUGE impact that will devastate the season is fooling themselves. Take Felton and Stoudemire off the Knicks and what do you have? Take Rose and Boozer off the Bulls, take Kidd and Nowitzki off the Mavericks, Parker and Duncan off the Spurs, I think you get the point.
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I think before you go touting players as BU saviors you need to step back and take a look at them. Who else recruited them, how good are they, could they have played for a SIU or an ISU or any good team, will we be better next year when they return. I get your point but i am afraid you are comparing apples to oranges.
 
SFP said:
I was and am not expecting a good win and loss record this year after TB and SM went down but what I want to see is how this team competes and improves throughout the season into St. Louis. That to me will be my determination on JL's season. He has zero control over the injuries but a coach does have control on how his team competes and if not well something has to change.
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Haven't we been conforming to this same attitude the last 2-3 seasons? We're always waiting for this team to improve as the Valley season goes along. By the time we've "arrived", we're out of contention and trying for that ellusive #4 seed...well, for other teams besides BU. :)

We assess the team at the end of the Valley season, thinking, "We got a lot better from how we played early in the season." But the way we play during our best run of the season should be the norm, and we should get even better. Why does it take us 20 games to have things figured out? Games the past 2 seasons where we've played very well (vs. U of I, vs. UNI, vs. MSU, vs. CU, vs. Detroit) should be seen on a regular basis. We HAD SM, TB, AW healthy last season for those games (except Detroit), but other than that, how well did we play?

What I've seen since the NIT season is underachieving and a lack of chemistry/energy that defines winning. So why would we suddenly meet or exceed expectations THIS season with TB & SM? We say, "No way we finish worse than 3rd!" and we end up 5th (and DD's injury is obviously the reason we didn't)
I don't think many of us thought we'd be playing this poorly without those guys this season. As some have mentioned, we lack fundamentals and other essentials that should be present no matter who is on the court.

To accurately solve our final record - simple formula:
How we play in our best 4-5 games + how we play in our worst 4-5 games, and then divide by 2 to get your answer.
 
Is there a post over at the Redbird or Saluki forum about how we are in meltdown mode at BradleyFans? If there is, it is well justified.

I strongly agree with TAS' post. I don't know what to think or what side to take. I'm not a JL lover or a JL hater, I'm simply a die-hard BU fan. I want to see a winning and established "high-mid major" program. JL has not shown that he can put that type of team together on a consistent basis. HOWEVER, I also feel for the guy as he lost two huge pieces of this years team which we all had high hopes for before the season began. He's also endured more than his share of injuries and setbacks during his tenure.

It's scary to think of what our fate will be with whatever direction we go.

We keep JL and hopefully get SM and TB back at full health next year as well as adding what I feel is a solid recruiting class. We either finish top 3 in the valley with an NCAA appearance OR a deep NIT run. If not...I would think that JL's stint as the Dean of the Valley is up.

We part ways with JL and possibly lose some of our current players and incoming recruits, spend 2-3 years in mediocrity (or the Valley cellar) while getting a new coach/system/team established and hope for the best. But maybe we spend longer than that in the cellar...maybe we never bounce back. Who knows?

All I know is that the fun and excitement that we had from 2006-2008 is gone. This program is on a downhill slide and fans (and most likely donors) are losing interest and patience. Either way you look at it, this program is in a BAD spot and there are some very tough decisions ahead.

I'll stop rambling now.
 
ManMythLegend said:
Is there a post over at the Redbird or Saluki forum about how we are in meltdown mode at BradleyFans? If there is, it is well justified.

I strongly agree with TAS' post. I don't know what to think or what side to take. I'm not a JL lover or a JL hater, I'm simply a die-hard BU fan. I want to see a winning and established "high-mid major" program. JL has not shown that he can put that type of team together on a consistent basis. HOWEVER, I also feel for the guy as he lost two huge pieces of this years team which we all had high hopes for before the season began. He's also endured more than his share of injuries and setbacks during his tenure.

It's scary to think of what our fate will be with whatever direction we go.

We keep JL and hopefully get SM and TB back at full health next year as well as adding what I feel is a solid recruiting class. We either finish top 3 in the valley with an NCAA appearance OR a deep NIT run. If not...I would think that JL's stint as the Dean of the Valley is up.

We part ways with JL and possibly lose some of our current players and incoming recruits, spend 2-3 years in mediocrity (or the Valley cellar) while getting a new coach/system/team established and hope for the best. But maybe we spend longer than that in the cellar...maybe we never bounce back. Who knows?

All I know is that the fun and excitement that we had from 2006-2008 is gone. This program is on a downhill slide and fans (and most likely donors) are losing interest and patience. Either way you look at it, this program is in a BAD spot and there are some very tough decisions ahead.

I'll stop rambling now.
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agree pretty much with your ramblings...tough decisions
 
MML-

My question to you is, not counting the incoming recruits, who are you so concerned about losing?

Sammy and Taylor can't go anywhere if they still want to play, Will can't go anywhere, and I don't see Jordan or DSE going anywhere...

So maybe we lose Walt and yeah, that could be a loss as I like Walt, but besides that, who would you be talking about?


At this point, I am not certain you can really point at that and say losing player A or B or whatever should keep you from making a change.

And I don't know much about Remy, but after talking personally with DS, I think he's gonna be here no matter what, and I know how committed missionaries are, so Harris will be here as well, no matter who the coach is.

I just don't feel like that's a good reason to keep or fire someone. JMO
 
All 4 recruits committed to Jim Les. He was an essential key to their commitment. I would expect all 4 of them to consider other options if JL was not here. And none of them would have any trouble getting other very good offers.
 
Good point STL Brave. I can't argue with you there.

One other thing to consider is IF we did make a coaching change, it's possible that these players wouldn't even fit the new system. I think Remy is the one that really sticks out to me as a must have. And that is not at all a knock on the other guys because I feel like they are all good players and would do well at Bradley. I just think that from what I've read and heard that Remy could step into ANY system and be successful.
 
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