For everything said..tonight was the JL era wrapped in a bow!

[srw]

Guys...The technical didn't cost us the game.

It was cost on three consecutive horrid 3 pointers by eastman, lemon, and andrew.

JL pointed that out in his postgame show.

But really..isnt this, and hasn't this been, what Bradley has been in the past 10 years.

I was positive BU would win tonight. But one of my friends said...remember who we are...We always find the roadside bomb, just away from us.

So it was tonight...This isnt the first time that terrible 3 point defense sunk this team.

It wasnt the first time, or the second, but the third in two years, that the coach got a terrible technical, in the guts of the game.

Its not the first time UNI came in here, and looked like globetrotters shooting against the generals.

Heres the deal. NO its not all Jimmys fault. But the mediocrity is. It all falls on the coach.

Like it or not...This has been the last 9 years....In a nutshell.

 

[SFP]

OK next thread! I think we have heard this before!

Where's that pic of beating a dead horse?

 

[srw]

OK next thread! I think we have heard this before!

Where's that pic of beating a dead horse?

My point remains...its not anything he did..not the tech...

but this is the mediocrity that comes with him

sfp..i think you will get your wish of getting the post pulled....But still its the darn truth

 

[Da Coach]

Again, I sorry to have to inject facts, which some prefer to ignore, or forget....The only facet of this game that is a reflection of the Jim Les era is the fact that Bradley was without their point guard, their best inside player, and 2 of their 3 top scorers. That necessitates more minutes for players who are less skilled, less experienced, and who cannot shoot or score, or defend as well as SM and TB.

As I said in another thread- just how good would UNI be if they had to play without Ahelegbe and Koch (best PG and big man), or Ahelegbe and James (2 of their top 3 scorers)? They would probably be in the same position as Bradley is. They would have to play their less talented players a lot more minutes. Austin Pehl started at center for UNI, and shortly after he lost the opening tip to Will Egolf, he was pulled and did not return to the game because Bradley scored easily on him inside. Once he was removed, those easy scores were limited. He played only a total of 6 minutes in the game, quite unusual for a starter. Well, if they lost Koch, they would have had to play Pehl the whole game, and how much different would this game have been? Also, if they lost Ahelegbe, they would have lost 24 points, 6 rebounds, and 6 assists- and they have nobody who could come close to replacing him.

If there is a legacy for Jim Les these past 5 seasons, it is the extraordinary bad luck of severe injuries, not to just anyone, but always involving his key players. Some will try to blame him for that, too. But reasonable fans won't.

 

[BradleyJD]

If there is a legacy for Jim Les these past 5 seasons, it is the extraordinary bad luck of severe injuries, not to just anyone, but always involving his key players.

OR

Heres the deal. NO its not all Jimmys fault. But the mediocrity is. It all falls on the coach.

Like it or not...This has been the last 9 years....In a nutshell.

No matter which side you fall on in this matter, #1 or #2....or if you find yourself in-between the two.....

How long would you continue with the current path Bradley is on??



I obviously have trended toward the second view. While I realize Bradley has had some injuries in the past several years, I also realize that you have to win games. You just have to win games.

Yes, Bradley was without SM and TB last night. Well they were also without them for the part of the game where they opened up a big lead. Also, the team has had an entire season to learn to play without those players.

Every loss is not because we don't have two players. Every loss is not the fault of the coach either.

No coach would say BU lost last night because of players we lost months ago. If he would, he wouldn't be coaching long.

Should a coach be given some leeway because of injuries, yes. Should a coach be given 5 extra years because of injuries? I do not believe so.

 

[dogsrus]

Next year...excuses allready built in.

Warren graduated...you need time for Remy to fill his shoes....Sam and Taylor had a year off..it will take some time for them to get back up to speed.

Year after that...we lost Sam. We need time for Donivine to get up to speed...he's young..so is BU.

Go Cubs....

 

[Da Coach]

As usual, we see the extreme exaggeration of viewpoints of the opposing fans, as an attempt to mock them and diminish their opinions.

Should a coach be given 5 extra years because of injuries?

I have yet to see anyone here advocate a 5-year extension. Can you show us?

Next year...excuses allready built in.

Warren graduated...you need time for Remy to fill his shoes....Sam and Taylor had a year off..it will take some time for them to get back up to speed.

Year after that...we lost Sam. We need time for Donivine to get up to speed...he's young..so is BU.

Yeah, right. Funny. Except I have not seen anyone suggesting that losing any player to graduation is an excuse for underperforming.
But if you distort other people's opinions enough, you can always make them look like buffoons, and yourself look like a genius.

 

[ph]

That's my worry. We have Never had a player return from a medical at full speed. I think Dodie has had the "fastest" recovery and it took him 2/3 the season.

 

[BradleyJD]

As usual, we see the extreme exaggeration of viewpoints of the opposing fans, as an attempt to mock them and diminish their opinions.



I have yet to see anyone here advocate a 5-year extension. Can you show us?

Please do not take my words out of context. Nowhere, in my thread, did I say any poster had ever said he should be given a 5 year extension. I asked how many more years should he get WITH injuries as a reason/excuse.

I never said any other poster suggested that line of thinking.

 

[Lakeview Brave]

As usual, we see the extreme exaggeration of viewpoints of the opposing fans, as an attempt to mock them and diminish their opinions.




I have yet to see anyone here advocate a 5-year extension. Can you show us?




Yeah, right. Funny. Except I have not seen anyone suggesting that losing any player to graduation is an excuse for underperforming.
But if you distort other people's opinions enough, you can always make them look like buffoons, and yourself look like a genius.

We had people who suggested losing POB to the NBA was an excuse for underperforming.

 

[SaintLouBrave22]

Please do not take my words out of context. Nowhere, in my thread, did I say any poster had ever said he should be given a 5 year extension. I asked how many more years should he get WITH injuries as a reason/excuse.

I never said any other poster suggested that line of thinking.

The only thing he's going to get is a 5-game extension...


I guess I don't know what everyone is so surprised about...


What was the Dennis Green line...The Braves are who we thought they were and Jim Les is who we thought he was...


And if some want to continuously let him off the hook thats fine...their prerogative...just don't assume some of us are going to follow you off that cliff, just as on the other end, some of us shouldn't assume that you want to get out of that marsh and into some land with green grass on the other side...

It is what it is and in 5 or 6 games, I won't have to worry about it anymore because I can focus on baseball!

So really, I'm not concerned about Bradley Basketball right now and won't be til about April...

 

[bigdaddystuck]

As for last nights game......

The T didn't lose the game for us. I personally don't have a problem with a coach getting a T from time to time. It shows his team that he is willing to go to bat for them, argue for them and can light a fire under the team. Last night, JL looked like he said the call was BS from across the floor...not that big of a deal for me. Ref needs to get rid of his rabbit ears!

We lost because we could not play any perimeter defense. #52 for them didn't even run through many screens and basically just stood out beyond the arc waiting for the ball to be reversed to him! We couldn't locate him and he hit the shots.

Also when they did manage to miss a shot in the 2nd half, it seemed like they got every rebound!

 

[Da Coach]

We had people who suggested losing POB to the NBA was an excuse for underperforming.

Even you would have to admit that is a much different situation than blaming losing players to graduation (which is what one mocking post accused some of doing).

POB did not decide to go into the NBA draft until May after his sophomore season. That resulted in a lack of a roster spot, and too late to recruit to fill it. Undoubtedly it did have a negative effect on the next year's team that a coach cannot be entirely blamed for, unless you subscribe to the "blame the coach for everything" club.

 

[BradleyJD]

We lost because we could not play any perimeter defense. #52 for them didn't even run through many screens and basically just stood out beyond the arc waiting for the ball to be reversed to him! We couldn't locate him and he hit the shots.

Also when they did manage to miss a shot in the 2nd half, it seemed like they got every rebound!

Danny Adams said as much on the radio last night. He said our D was not good at all, especially on giving UNI wide open 3's.

 

[AZ BU Fan]

When BU wins, great young players from a great recruiter with much promise coming of age with great execution, great coaching, and a great game plan.

When BU loses, its the absence of SM and TB.

OK, I get it now. I am content.

I pray to the basketball gods in heaven BU has no injuries next year so we can finally find out if JL is able to out recruit, out teach, and out coach his peers in the MVC. Don't want to hear a peep about experience, or lack thereof, if the results are not there in 2011-12 for BU.

BU should be the school of choice for the best players in the MVC if they can turn out 3 x +/-10,000 fan games with the worst record in the MVC, run the cleanest program in the league, have the best practice facilities in the MVC, play in the second largest arena in the MVC, have the dean of MVC coaches, the only coach who made it to the show as a MVC player, multiple NBA and professional players, several former coaches with NBA connections.....

 

[TheAsianSensation]

I'm a little bit reminded of the boy who cried wolf.

Each of the 4 previous years to this one, the injury excuse has been used. To some, it's completely warranted. To others, it's unwarranted. Me personally? I fall somewhere in between. Injuries were a part of the problem with the team but not a big enough problem such that it shouldn't have prevented us from getting where we wanted to be.

Now, to this year. Injuries again. Except, this time, REALLY REALLY for sure, the injuries are a legitimate excuse. They truly are. However, since we used the injury excuse the past 4 years as well, we've used up all of our injury excuse reserve, so to speak. No one wants to hear the same excuse every year.

So, when we finally hit the year that the injury excuse is legitimate, every fan is already to the point to where he/she refuses to legitimately apply the injury excuse to this year's expectations of the team.

So you can blame the "pro-Les" supporters for incorrectly applying the injury excuse in years past, causing people not to take this year's injuries fairly into account. And you can also blame the "anti-Les" supporters for not realizing how devastating losing your top two players can be, and not properly adjusting expectations.


Me personally, going into this year, I decided to set a hard ultimatum (my own ultimatum for expectatiosn for this team). Top 3 in conference or else. My argument: there were enough excuses the past few years (some legit, some not so legit). All the mulligans were used up. And then of course, SM and TB happens. So now I have a hard ultimatum against a team that is completely unfair and unattainable. Let's face it - Les was never going to have a top 3 team without SM and TB, and you can easily make the argument that he COULD have a top 3 team this year with them. However, my ultimatum stands (in my world, only, of course). Am I completely being unfair to this year's team? Absolutely. It's unfair to over-punish Les for this season. However, if I welch on my ultimatum, I'm not being fair to the previous seasons.




In other words, if I give a mulligan to Les for this season, then I have to take a mulligan away from the past 3 seasons. There's only so many mulligans you can give. And taking away a mulligan from those seasons makes the job Les did look so much worse. And this is the point I think the "anti-Les" people are ultimately trying to get at.



All of this said...we played the 3rd best team in conference tight at home. Given our situation, and the fact we've still won 3 of 5...aren't we getting a bit harsh? It's not like we're not competitive, and the acknowledgment that this team is playing better in the 2nd half of the MVC season is worth making.

 

[canadian]

Again, I sorry to have to inject facts, which some prefer to ignore, or forget....The only facet of this game that is a reflection of the Jim Les era is the fact that Bradley was without their point guard, their best inside player, and 2 of their 3 top scorers. That necessitates more minutes for players who are less skilled, less experienced, and who cannot shoot or score, or defend as well as SM and TB.

If there is a legacy for Jim Les these past 5 seasons, it is the extraordinary bad luck of severe injuries, not to just anyone, but always involving his key players. Some will try to blame him for that, too. But reasonable fans won't.

Reasonable fans also know that a coach has 13 scholarships. That is more than enough players to make up for injuries, etc. No doubt there has been a lot of bad luck on the injury front. Good programs make up for that. My biggest problem here is every year we are told how much quality depth there is--yet it doesn't seem to come to fruition when needed.

You are correct. There are facts about the injuries. There also facts about the won/loss record over nine years. It is reasonable for you to give a guy a break for his "extraordinary bad luck of severe injuries". It is also reasonable for others to understand the role of a coach is to stockpile good players and have depth so injuries don't cause you to fall from the sky. Are the injury "facts" the only things that are "facts"? Are you dismissing the entire post because it didn't bring the injury thing up?

The record is the record. The assumptions about what the record would/could be with all the injured players healthy is just that, assumptions. Some fans like the reality, some like the assumptions.

Bottom line, both sides can be reasonable. One doesn't own the market on that.

 

[Da Coach]

So you think Bradley would have the same record now if there had been no injuries?
If so, then I would be on your side, and would want to blame the coach. But I think that's not the case.

 

[AZ BU Fan]

Is it unreasonable to think that a team many thought was top 3, or even should have been favored in the MVC this year with SM and TB, with a potential MVC POY still on the roster, should have been able to finish ahead of other teams in the Valley? No one expected them to finish top 3 post SM/TB, but few expected them to be 3-13 right now tied for the bottom.

The lack of effort in some games, the lack of defense in many games, the poor decisions/poor shooting, the poor FT shooting, missed layup epidemic, assignment breakdowns, lack of player leadership is what is driving some BU fans nuts. Leaves them wondering how this happens with the Dean of Coaches in the MVC, rated a good/great recruiter by many, running the show.

The other thing that drives some folks nuts, is a coach, many say is targeted by MVC Officials with short fuses, throws gas on the fire by calling out officials and getting T'd up again. Turns the JL-MVC Official battle into a perpetual technical machine.

How does cussing out officials in a game that many say was a victory anyway for UNI with their unprecedented 3 point shooting vs tight defense, help JL's volatile relationship with MVC Officials in the future?

JL should chew out officials at the start of future games, demonstrate he has his team's back, get the T, and get it out of the way early when the team has time to recover.

Oh well, good luck BU, finish strong, and looking forward to next year!

 

[canadian]

So you think Bradley would have the same record now if there had been no injuries?
If so, then I would be on your side, and would want to blame the coach. But I think that's not the case.

I'm not "blaming" the coach for anything. However I understand the world of sports. Coaches at this level are paid a lot of money. An insane amount really. As a result of that the expectation is to win games and compete for championships.

If there is a clause in the contract that states "injuries, etc." will be taken into account when evaluating the performance then I would take that into consideration. However, I highly doubt it is in this case.

You know this. In all sports the coaches shoulder the blame for losses and get the credit for the wins. That's how it works. You take that on when you accept the job and make the big money.

It's a results driven profession. Bottom line. IMO, the results aren't there. You can argue until we are blue in the face the causes, reasons, and why they are what they are but that's an exercise in futility.

To answer your question I need more info. Are we talking about all injuries or just the ones this season? Do I look at Bradley in a vacuum or do I get to consider injuries and other factors for the BU opponents? Because remember if not for injuries Dodie and Andrew would not be on the roster this year.