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Grading the MVC coaches

IMO Les is better then Marshall. But I am pretty biased ;) Just wondering, if Marshall seems to be graded a lot on potential of what next year will be, wouldn't Jacobsen be a little higher?
 
I just think it's funny that within the past year every one
of the Valley coaches has had calls for firing him on the various message
boards. Even Ben Jacobson was being roasted the whole first half of the season
in one of their long running threads, and Dana has had a number of threads that wanted to "go a different direction".
I am not saying the message boards always reflect what everyone thinks, but it isn't too far,
I believe, from a representative sample of the fan base.........
 
There's one thing missing from your analysis Joe and that is the type of citizens the coaches are turning out. These are not professionals but student athletes and scholastic accomplishments need to be part of the overall equation.
 
No way when you mention based solely on the work done in the conference can you give Marshall anything near a B.

He is 12 games under .500 in conference play. That is not a B grade.

Jacobson should get an A- for winning a conference championship and lets face it he has won with less athletic players then anyone else in the conference.

Les, until he can get to .500 in the conference overall and/or wins something either conference title or conference title he does not deserve the B, he is a C.

Jank is probably right with the B+ but Id go with a B- because of his soft scheduling which has directly affected his teams post season success.

Simmons, yes his record is not steller but lets face it he took Eville to a 5th place finish and stayed out of the play in game for I cant remember how long, he likely deserves a B or B- just for that accomplishment.
 
houstontxbrave said:
No way when you mention based solely on the work done in the conference can you give Marshall anything near a B.

He is 12 games under .500 in conference play. That is not a B grade.

Jacobson should get an A- for winning a conference championship and lets face it he has won with less athletic players then anyone else in the conference.

Les, until he can get to .500 in the conference overall and/or wins something either conference title or conference title he does not deserve the B, he is a C.

Jank is probably right with the B+ but Id go with a B- because of his soft scheduling which has directly affected his teams post season success.

Simmons, yes his record is not steller but lets face it he took Eville to a 5th place finish and stayed out of the play in game for I cant remember how long, he likely deserves a B or B- just for that accomplishment.
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You might be right on Marshall, but he had a six game improvement from his first team, and won 17 games with what I would consider a young, mediocre team.

I would like to see Jacobson have one more good season before elevating him to an A-. If he wins the conference this year, or at least makes the dance, he'll be there.

Les earned his B mainly on the Sweet 16 run. The 21+ wins for four straight years is a nice accomplishment, but when you have to play 35+ games to get there, it isn't as good as it looks.

We'll see what happens when Jank has to rely on his own recruits...

Evansville was awful in Marty's first year, and improved dramatically this past season. Even at that, he had three good seniors and only finished 5th in the conference. To me, that's slightly above average, hence the C+.

Thanks for the feedback... keep it coming!
 
electricmayhem said:
You might be right on Marshall, but he had a six game improvement from his first team, and won 17 games with what I would consider a young, mediocre team.

I would like to see Jacobson have one more good season before elevating him to an A-. If he wins the conference this year, or at least makes the dance, he'll be there.

Les earned his B mainly on the Sweet 16 run. The 21+ wins for four straight years is a nice accomplishment, but when you have to play 35+ games to get there, it isn't as good as it looks.

We'll see what happens when Jank has to rely on his own recruits...

Evansville was awful in Marty's first year, and improved dramatically this past season. Even at that, he had three good seniors and only finished 5th in the conference. To me, that's slightly above average, hence the C+.

Thanks for the feedback... keep it coming!
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Mayhem,

You are now giving reasoning based on overall performance not as you orginally stated:

"If you were grading the MVC coaches, what would you give them, based only on their MVC career?"

Which is it?
 
I think he means MVC career as in their time as a coach of school within the MVC and not at any other schools outside the conference.
 
It's tough to grade the coaches that have only had a couple of years. I think most of the grades are favorable since they are going off potential and that always seems high at the beginning.

Since the Valley hasn't had an at large team in the past two seasons, it's hard to say that any coach is really tearing it up out there.
 
electricmayhem said:
This is correct. I'm not sure I understand Houston's point...
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I believe he thought you were referring to MVC games only, or at least conference wins and ultimate regular season or tournament championships. I kinda thought that way also when I first read the question.

That being said, JL probably is a C, even with the Sweet 16. I do think he's getting better. The 20 win seasons lately are somewhat jaded when you lose 15 plus. No conference regular season or tournament titles, and his overall Valley record is barely .500. Even the Sweet 16 team under achieved until they caught lightning in a bottle the last month.
 
electricmayhem said:
This is correct. I'm not sure I understand Houston's point...
Click to expand...

My point is, I thought when you wrote the question, you wanted feedback on grading for Valley coaches, and based those grades off of their performance in the MVC.

Apparently, you wanted to have grades for the coaches since they have been coaches within the Valley, including their records in nonconference games.

Misinterpreted the way you presented the question.
 
houstontxbrave said:
My point is, I thought when you wrote the question, you wanted feedback on grading for Valley coaches, and based those grades off of their performance in the MVC.

Apparently, you wanted to have grades for the coaches since they have been coaches within the Valley, including their records in nonconference games.

Misinterpreted the way you presented the question.
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It probably wasn't worded very well.

I still say that if Molinari was average over his last five or six years, then what JL has done is above average.
 
I think it is impossible to grade all of the MVC coaches Mayhem -- too many new ones make it impossible to grade them all.

My take-aways:

1) I would downgrade Altman to an A- based on his latest difficulties.
2) No way Lowery is a B. I'd give him a B+ based on his entire body of work.
3) How can Les and Marshall both be a B? Les would never have been given a B if his record was 28-37 after 2 seasons. I'd keep Les at a B and Marshall at a C.
4) I really don't think you can fairly grade any of these coaches after just two seasons...........Let's see what they can do with their own recruits.
 
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Creightion has had decent in-season success, but it's been a long time since they had any
appreciable post-season success, much to the consternation of many Bluejay fans.

Here is a nice summary story on Creighton under Dana Altman...
but the picture can only be seen by the premium subscription owners, although I can link you to it...
it is not very flattering...
799000.jpg


the story itself (in 3 parts - plus interview) is generally positive but repeatedly makes mention of the dissatisfied fans...
http://creighton.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=951168
http://creighton.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=950790

Here are a few of the clips...

"(fans) screaming for success in the NCAA Tournament

...We've been close but close doesn't count. We've gotta do a better job (in the tournament).

Dana Altman might lack the showmanship of other coaches...

... Some find that boring in today's world of tabloid media stories and internet message boards ..

...In a lot of ways, the year was very successful and in some ways it wasn't as successful as we would have hoped."
 
Yes, JL made the Sweet 16, but he also had a lottery pick at center. He also was significantly below average before that year, and average since. It would be easy to argue that the Sweet 16 team underachieved for the better part of 2 seasons until the last 11-12 games of 2006. That team was arguably the most talented team the MVC has seen in the last decade, and the only one with an NBA 1st round pick in that time span. Yet the best they could muster was a 4th place league finish? I'm sorry, a fluke run in 2006 doesn't excuse an otherwise overwhelmingly average body of work. The record speaks for itself. I'm happy with the direction I think we're finally heading, but C is the grade. Could be better, Could be worse. ;)
 
BradleyBrave said:
Yes, JL made the Sweet 16, but he also had a lottery pick at center. He also was significantly below average before that year, and average since. It would be easy to argue that the Sweet 16 team underachieved for the better part of 2 seasons until the last 11-12 games of 2006. That team was arguably the most talented team the MVC has seen in the last decade, and the only one with an NBA 1st round pick in that time span. Yet the best they could muster was a 4th place league finish? I'm sorry, a fluke run in 2006 doesn't excuse an otherwise overwhelmingly average body of work. The record speaks for itself. I'm happy with the direction I think we're finally heading, but C is the grade. Could be better, Could be worse. ;)
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I'll say this again... I think missing the first 8 games hurt POB. I know they were non-con games, but it took him a few games to get his feet under him once he started playing.

With all due respect, I don't think you can use the fact that he was a lottery pick to deem the team underachievers. I happen to agree that Les has an overall average body of work, but POB hasn't panned out in the NBA, and if he hadn't had a monster game against Aaron Gray, he might not have been drafted at all, no matter what year he came out.

Plus, regarding the 4th place finish that year, didn't the league have four teams in the tournament that season? If memory serves me correctly, SIU, UNI, WSU and BU all made the dance, and all performed admirably. I suppose that lessens the sting of a 4th place league finish.
 
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