I know you're "done talking about this" and that's nice, but now you are bringing into question every basketball game or athletic event for that matter in the country. Stop being so cynical. Watching sporting events must be terrible for you because you can never trust the outcome. I would never watch another game if I thought like you. Show a little trust in the institution and believe that a game is won on the court.
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I WAS for the CBI....
- Thread starter dogsrus
- Start date
I know you're "done talking about this" and that's nice, but now you are bringing into question every basketball game or athletic event for that matter in the country. Stop being so cynical. Watching sporting events must be terrible for you because you can never trust the outcome. I would never watch another game if I thought like you. Show a little trust in the institution and believe that a game is won on the court.
No one ??“ on either side - is going to argue this game was well officiated. Let??™s move on from that.
This game was lost on one factor ??“ Tulsa??™s offensive rebounding. Tulsa had 18 offensive rebounds to Bradley??™s 9 that resulted in a 16-9 differential on second chance points. Add to that the Braves shot 21% on threes compared to a season average of 38% and 55% on free throws compared to a season average of 75%. That was the ball game.
Scouter, I don??™t think I could feel any more differently than you (based on your flippant remarks above). No question, I had higher aspirations for this year??™s team. However, this team has faced a lot of adversity and never quit fighting. It would have been easy to ???mail it in??? at several points this season. They did not and are probably playing as well (despite last night) as they have all year. I am not sure if I will ???let the champagne (sic) flow,??? but winning 22 games three years in a row would certainly be a nice accomplishment. It is unfortunate you have no appreciation for that.
This game was lost on one factor ??“ Tulsa??™s offensive rebounding. Tulsa had 18 offensive rebounds to Bradley??™s 9 that resulted in a 16-9 differential on second chance points. Add to that the Braves shot 21% on threes compared to a season average of 38% and 55% on free throws compared to a season average of 75%. That was the ball game.
Scouter, I don??™t think I could feel any more differently than you (based on your flippant remarks above). No question, I had higher aspirations for this year??™s team. However, this team has faced a lot of adversity and never quit fighting. It would have been easy to ???mail it in??? at several points this season. They did not and are probably playing as well (despite last night) as they have all year. I am not sure if I will ???let the champagne (sic) flow,??? but winning 22 games three years in a row would certainly be a nice accomplishment. It is unfortunate you have no appreciation for that.
Tulsa Brave
New member
Breaking news...
Tulsa has forfeited Wednesday's game and will remain in Tulsa to prepare for Friday's game. They will keep the money they would have spent on traveling to Peoria, since the outcome of the game in Peoria has already been predetermined anyway.
Tulsa has forfeited Wednesday's game and will remain in Tulsa to prepare for Friday's game. They will keep the money they would have spent on traveling to Peoria, since the outcome of the game in Peoria has already been predetermined anyway.
Nice selective editing there, by the way, Scouter... I think the refs called a bad game, and I think it hurt Bradley more than it did Tulsa. I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories and think what happened was that the refs lost control of the game early and then got all out of sorts trying to get it back under control. Refs have bad games just like players or coaches. I reserve the right to suggest that they had a bad game.
I also went on to say that you'll have trouble with the refs from time to time, and you have to play through it... and that with a couple more rebounds or made free throws Bradley could (or should) have won this game.
I also went on to say that you'll have trouble with the refs from time to time, and you have to play through it... and that with a couple more rebounds or made free throws Bradley could (or should) have won this game.
Tulsa Brave
New member
Nah...what really happened is that since we knew the outcome was predetermined, we figured why waste the energy trying to rebound and why concentrate on making the free throws...we weren't going to win anyway so why bother trying.
I started most of this ref bashing last nite when I was upset. Anyone that has said we lost this game for lack of rebounding, poor free throws and poor 3 point shooting is correct. We had a chance to beat these guys and we didn't.
We know have a chance to make adjustments and take this BACK to Tulsa.
Apologies to Tulsa fans for blaming the refs. Were they horrible...I think they were. Did it cost us the game...no...we lost it ourselves..PERIOD.
We know have a chance to make adjustments and take this BACK to Tulsa.
Apologies to Tulsa fans for blaming the refs. Were they horrible...I think they were. Did it cost us the game...no...we lost it ourselves..PERIOD.
Because we couldn't hit free throws?
TheAsianSensation
New member
I didn't realize it was Bradley's birthright to win this championship.
Tulsa outplayed us. It's not rocket science.
Tulsa outplayed us. It's not rocket science.
Which refs are you talking about Tornado?
The refs for the Dayton / ISU game were:
Kipp Kissinger
Brian Shey
Brett Miles
Shey and Miles didn't ref a single game against any A-10 foe all season.
And Kissinger did a TON of valley games.
imo a lot of adjustments can be made with our guards and how we match
up against TU... needless to say, rebounding is another issue.
I am amazed that anyone thinks that referees are totally unbiased. Of course they are biased, if they weren't, then why does every contact between teams of 2 different conferences require a negotiated contract that stipulates who the referees will be?
Why does nearly every BCS-type school try to reserve the right to select the officials if they play an away game?
Selection of officials is always one of the top negotiable items when contracting for a non-conference game. But if refs are all unbiased, then why would it matter? Nobody would go through all this bother.
Of course, it is exactly because every school wants some say in the officials because they know it does matter, and there are biases.
Why does nearly every BCS-type school try to reserve the right to select the officials if they play an away game?
Selection of officials is always one of the top negotiable items when contracting for a non-conference game. But if refs are all unbiased, then why would it matter? Nobody would go through all this bother.
Of course, it is exactly because every school wants some say in the officials because they know it does matter, and there are biases.
Of course they are slightly biased. It is human nature to have an interest in one team over another. This is a far cry from intentionally giving a game to one team over another, however. It's not even close to having a tournament dictate to the officials which team should win a particular game. Your point is correct, others on this board are taking it the ultimate and ridiculous extreme.
OrangeandBlack74
New member
Thanks for finally coming clean, DRU...
I agree with all comments made. Biggest disappointment is that the game could have been won last night...not that it should have been won, but it could have been won!
But since the CBI hasa control over who refs the games can't they "help" decide the outcome to an extent by weighting the crew in favor of who they want to win? Getting to refs that did multiple Tulsa games is a good start.
Again though iot doesn't really matter....BU could have won this in SPITE of how bad some of us think the game was called. Oh...and it WAS bad.
Braves4Life
New member
I'd love to see us get some "home cookin'". I nominate da Coach, tornado, and dogsrus to ref the game tomorrow night :lol:
Tulsa Brave
New member
But since the CBI hasa control over who refs the games can't they "help" decide the outcome to an extent by weighting the crew in favor of who they want to win? Getting to refs that did multiple Tulsa games is a good start.
Again though iot doesn't really matter....BU could have won this in SPITE of how bad some of us think the game was called. Oh...and it WAS bad.
Yeah we could have won...maybe even should have won. But we will win tomorrow and again Friday.
Are you guys still planning on coming down Friday?
tornado
New member
so, recall, I said the "appearance of bias or conflict", surely hiring a recent MVC AD as ref for a game involving an MVC team and another foe could do better in avoiding the appearance of a conflict.
Every ref in the nation is available on that night...you know there's not a whole lot of games going on..you can have almost anyone you want, so you pick guys with league ties and homers from Oklahoma?
beano...I know the appearance of bias when I see it...but proving intent on bias is, of course,
impossible, since how can you know what's inside someone's mind.
But what about this.........
In Illinois State's home win in the NIT over Utah State, look who one of the refs is...........
http://www.mvc.org/mbb/stats/ils-m19.htm
One of the refs is Rick Hartzell, who I am sure you know quite well,
just happens to be the Athletic Director of ISU's conference mate University of Northern Iowa.
http://unipanthers.cstv.com/genrel/hartzell_rick00.html
UNI Athletic Director Rick Hartzell
who reffed ISU's home NIT win vs. USU
Now seriously.....since ISU will share some of its NIT revenue with UNI, and so therefore,
Rick Hartzell literally gains directly in a financial way from ISU's win, then don't you think the
NIT organizers should have done whatever necessary to AVOID even the remote appearance of bias or conflict in the selection of refs?
This example is one that the Utah State people should have made a stink out of!!!!!!!!!!!
I know it is just an example, but a pretty powerful one at that which I think
proves the tournament organizers really don't care about the "appearance" of bias
and just maybe don't even care about the reality of it either.....you decide.......
Tornado, to be fair you said A LOT of things.
You said Hartzell was the AD at UNI. WRONG You even underlined it for effect.
You said Hartzell literally gains directly in a financially way from ISU winning. WRONG Hartzell hasn't been employed by an MVC school since January. He gains nothing, besides his ref stipend for doing that game.
The Hartzell / UNI thing didn't end well. But then again, you think he is still employed there.
Now knowing this, do you think the Utah State fans should stink make a stink about this?
Hartzell is a dam good ref. Look over the years at some of the games he has done. He has done big time match-ups and Big Dances the last few years. I was at the game, and there was only 1 call he made, that I didn't agree with. He was by the far the best ref on the floor that night. You think he cares what happens with Dayton / Illinois State? Come on man. One of the refs that did last night's game did both ISU / SIU's games this year, he also did the Tennessee / Memphis game where #1 and #2 played earlier this season.
All 3 of these refs worked this year's Big Dance. One of them, I believe just worked a Sweet 16 game.
I can't remember who made this point and in what thread, but how come the officiating wasn't questioned in any of the other CBI games? In those games, didn't BU have the foul count and free throw advantage in those games?
Tulsa is a rugged team, that is very athletic and talented down low. Bradley's weakness this year has been post play. I see that as the main difference in the fouls called and free throws attemped. You got outrebounded 46 to 25. Tulsa had 18 offensive boards to BU's 7. Do you think that might have been a bigger issue than the fouls?
Feel free to play games with word semantics with your appearance of bias or conflict all you want.
But in the end, don't let the facts get in the way of your rant.
Still waiting to hear the refs from the Dayton / ISU game that also did A-10 games....
Out of Balance
New member
I agree this game was winable but wasn't because of all the things you said above. Take away the bad 3 point and freethrow shooting plus the oneway officiating, the game is just more of what we have indured all year on the boards!