Is this BU's second worst decade ever?

[bigdaddystuck]

Some good thoughts here...

I agree that the program is not where we want it.

I would argue about the 20 win seasons. We got lucky that a couple of lesser tourneys were created to allow us to reach those marks. Granted they were wins against real competition, but I dont think they mean the same as a 20 win regular season...or even 20 wins after the valley tourney. If these tourneys were around in the last 30 years, and meant that much, then the current staff probably wouldn't be here.

 

[TheAsianSensation]

You know, first thought I had was.....there's been some pretty good decades, you know. Besides, comparing eras in college basketball these days is sort of pointless as the structure of the game has changed so much. So whatever.

 

[BradleyBrave]

You know, first thought I had was.....there's been some pretty good decades, you know. Besides, comparing eras in college basketball these days is sort of pointless as the structure of the game has changed so much. So whatever.

On a national level perhaps, but it's not pointless comparing eras relative to the conference you play in and how you fare in your league. If the league has changed so much that we can't compete anymore, then we shouldn't be in the MVC. You know as well as I do that it isn't the case.

 

[squirrelgotdead]

Some good thoughts here...

I agree that the program is not where we want it.

I would argue about the 20 win seasons. We got lucky that a couple of lesser tourneys were created to allow us to reach those marks. Granted they were wins against real competition, but I dont think they mean the same as a 20 win regular season...or even 20 wins after the valley tourney. If these tourneys were around in the last 30 years, and meant that much, then the current staff probably wouldn't be here.

This is a good point, and in the efforts of keeping this conversation "rational" the 20-win season used to mean something when referencing the regular season, much the same that a 22-win regular season means something now since all teams can participate in non-exempt tournaments every year, so all teams are, on average, playing about 3 more games each year.

Bradley's win totals reaching those marks the previous four seasons all required postseason wins to get there.

 

[srw]

5 straight winning seasons
5 straight seasons finishing in the upper half of the MVC
Over 100 games won in these last 5 seasons, and this season is not yet complete.
RPI the last 5 seasons- 33, 38, 105, 98, 108.

Let's make this a rational discussion, and not just another vehicle for the irrational bashing of Bradley. This program has not reached the levels we expect, but it is not the failure that some would like to persuade us. I am not sure you can compare decades so easily, especially since some of the worst phases in Bradley's history overlapped decades. But under Jim Les we have seen nothing that comes close to the futility of 3 straight 20 loss seasons at the end of the Albeck era and the beginning of the Mo era. And the 70's were horrible, too.
Thanks to Dick Versace for rescuing Bradley from the abyss the program was clearly headed to then.

I think the 5 straight seasons in the top half of the league is the most compelling argument here, but certainly the 90's produced close to that if not the same.

The RPI of the first two years in that list was telling too..as was the dropoff since.

On the three straight years, they came and the end of a decade and a beginning of another, so that was a relatively short, terrible stretch.

 

[Chico]

FYI...

Stowell - 91-93 in 13 seasons in MVC play, with 3 2nd place finishes. 197-147 overall (.573)

Versace - 97-49 in 8 seasons in MVC play, with 3 1st place finishes, 156-88 overall (.639)

Albeck - 44-34 in 5 seasons in MVC play, 1 1st, 1 2nd, 75-71 overall (.514)

Molinari - 114-92 in 11 seasons in MVC play, 1 1st place, 3 2nd place, 174-152 overall (.534)

Les - 70-74 in 8 seasons in MVC play, with 0 top 3 finishes, 139-118 overall (.541)

A lot can happen in 5 seasons and probably will, for the better.

 

[BradleyBrave]

A lot can happen in 5 seasons and probably will, for the better.

Not sure what that means. If it means that you think 5 more years of this will somehow yield desired results, I would respectfully disagree and say there's little evidence to support that. But I guess it depends what your standards of success are.

 

[SFP]

Another thread that is just bashing the current regime. Please come with something unique. BORING!!!

 

[BradleyBrave]

Another thread that is just bashing the current regime. Please come with something unique. BORING!!!

How is it bashing the current regime? It's a commentary on the decade, and Coach Mo was responsible for 2 of those years.

Ironically Mo has the best and worst conference finishes of the decade. :-o

 

[srw]

Not sure what that means. If it means that you think 5 more years of this will somehow yield desired results, I would respectfully disagree and say there's little evidence to support that. But I guess it depends what your standards of success are.

There have been a number of posts tonight that I completely didn't understand.

Didn't know if I agreed with them or disagreed with them.

 

[SFP]

How is it bashing the current regime? It's a commentary on the decade, and Coach Mo was responsible for 2 of those years.

Ironically Mo has the best and worst conference finishes of the decade. :-o

I stand by my comment

2nd worst decade??? What else is there to take from this post. Do you think that we are a bunch of morons? I give you more credit then that BB.

I can say economically this is the 2nd worst decade in my life. I'd have to say the stagflation years during the Carter years were worse.

 

[BradleyBrave]

I stand by my comment

2nd worst decade??? What else is there to take from this post. Do you think that we are a bunch of morons? I give you more credit then that BB.

I can say economically this is the 2nd worst decade in my life. I'd have to say the stagflation years during the Carter years were worse.

If you don't like the topic SFP you don't have to contribute. The facts are the facts. Should we just ignore them? Someone brought it up, and people are commenting on it. If you don't like it you don't have to participate. Da Coach didn't have a problem with the thread and contributed to the discussion twice, going as far as to say -

"This program has not reached the levels we expect".

Are you going to call him a 'hater' too?

 

[bigdaddystuck]

Not sure what that means. If it means that you think 5 more years of this will somehow yield desired results, I would respectfully disagree and say there's little evidence to support that. But I guess it depends what your standards of success are.

I am guessing that Chico meant to compare JL to Stowell would take 5 more years, because that is the difference between the 2 and probably that JL would do better over the next 5

 

[BradleyBrave]

I am guessing that Chico meant to compare JL to Stowell would take 5 more years, because that is the difference between the 2 and probably that JL would do better over the next 5

Hmm...well here's Stowell's last 5 years -

'74 - 20-8 - .714
'75 - 15-11 - .577
'76 - 13-13 - .500
'77 - 9-18 - .333
'78 - 14-14 - .500

71-64 (.526) over his last 5, and that was with no 3rd tier tournaments to pad the record at the end of the season. So it's debateable. But man do I hope we're better than a .526 winning percentage over the next 5 years, or those are going to be some real long seasons.

 

[AZ BU Fan]

Disappointing perhaps a better description for this decade. More ups and downs than a soap opera.

DC is correct BU's program has not fallen to the depths of hell this decade after a rough start. But BU has been stuck in the middle for most of this decade, not particularly bad or good, other than the magic run at the end of one season.

Hard to compare this decade to other decades cause BU's reputation this decade has benefitted from NIT participation due to its ability to draw first round fans, and, the fact two new tournaments were put in place with BU's appearance benefitting due to its ability to draw fans.

Take away the NIT invitation, and the two post season 'Exhibitions" aka
'Tournaments', to level the playing field with other decades, and several of the BU accomplishments cited for this decade aren't there.

 

[BradleyBrave]

Disappointing perhaps a better description for this decade. More ups and downs than a soap opera.

I agree with this statement too. I personally think we've had 4 teams this decade ('06, '07, '08, '10) that were talented enough to compete for our league's title and go to the NCAA's, but have only gotten there once. Yes, we still have a chance for this '10 team to get there, but the point remains the same. It bothers me that we've had so many good players come through recently and don't have more to show for it.

 

[SFP]

If you don't like the topic SFP you don't have to contribute. The facts are the facts. Should we just ignore them? Someone brought it up, and people are commenting on it. If you don't like it you don't have to participate. Da Coach didn't have a problem with the thread and contributed to the discussion twice, going as far as to say -

"This program has not reached the levels we expect".

Are you going to call him a 'hater' too?

I'm just giving you my opinion on the thread. Why take the offense BB and even take up for the originator of the post? The same old garbage. Boring as the garbage before. Maybe if the thread was worded a bit differently I'd have another attitude towards it but it is still a dig. You know it, I know it and the rest of the guys on this board know it. I never called you a hater but if you want to go there well that's your problem. As I said in the "unsuccessful vs successful" thread I vote UN and I'd bet the team would say the same thing. This thread on the other hand is taking a slap at our program the past 10 years as one of the worst ever! If it smells like trash, it must be garbage no matter how you slice it. If you do not like the way I see things then IGNORE me because I'm not going anywhere.

 

[Da Coach]

Hmm...well here's Stowell's last 5 years -

'74 - 20-8 - .714
'75 - 15-11 - .577
'76 - 13-13 - .500
'77 - 9-18 - .333
'78 - 14-14 - .500

71-64 (.526) over his last 5, and that was with no 3rd tier tournaments to pad the record at the end of the season. So it's debateable. But man do I hope we're better than a .526 winning percentage over the next 5 years, or those are going to be some real long seasons.

If we are going to try to parse Stowell's record to try to make it look better, and criticize Jim Les' teams for playing in the CBI and CIT, then it's only fair to point out some other things, too that "padded the record" of Joe Stowell.
At least the wins in the CBI and CIT were against quality Division I teams.
Stowell's teams played some abysmally weak competetion early in their seasons that guaranteed several extra easy wins.
They did not play "exhibition games" back then, so these were actual scheduled games that counted-
St. Ambrose, Samford, and Tennessee-Martin (in '73-'74)
Illinois Wesleyan, Steubenville, and Wheaton ('74-'75)
Fort Lewis and Samford ('75-'76)
Quincy and Illinois Tech ('76-'77)
Illinois Wesleyan, Quincy, and Cal-Hayward ('77-'78 ).
Those are just the most obvious ones. There were also games most years against Westren Illinois, Loyola, and other very low level teams on the schedule.

And the other factor I would argue is that the Missouri Valley simply was not as good a conference top-to-bottom then as it has been the last decade. The MVC always had 2 or 3 very good teams, but they had some bottom dwellers than that guaranteed a couple easy conference wins every year.
Nobody I know has ever suggested Joe Stowell wasn't a very good coach, and I don't see anyone here saying that. He always got his players to play hard, and overachieve. But his teams usually played with talent that might politely be called second tier.
Jim Les has been criticized endlessly here for never winning a conference or tournament title. What did Joe Stowell ever win?

And if Jim Les ever scheduled a home game against Steubenville or Illinois Tech (not just an exhibition) just to pad his win total, the fans would revolt.

 

[squirrelgotdead]

What did Joe Stowell ever win?

Respect.

 

[Braveman]

Wow- now people are attacking Joe Stowell... unbelieveable...