Remy Abell

[electricmayhem]

Top 5... Maybe Top 3 (with a little luck)... Some kind of post season bid.

In year three under Les, we were 13-15, 6-12.
In year three under Mo, we were 23-8, 14-4.

I'd settle for something in between that.

We danced in Mo's 5th season and in JL's 4th season. In both cases, we never got back to the dance.

My strategy is if we dance in Geno's 4th or 5th season, get rid of him immediately! Let's just eliminate the backside of the mountain!

 

[TheAsianSensation]

You are free to believe all that, but this is where we disagree. Many people believed Jim Les was just as capable of rebuilding this team as a new coach. And we all know the reasons he was fired. He was just 1 year removed for 5 winning seasons in a row, averaging over 20 wins per season. Now I know you will try to diminish that with all sorts of qualifications, but Bradley was a winning program, and might have been even much better, and had a couple more NCAA seasons if not for a number of key injuries to our star players. Plus, JL had a great recruiting class coming in that all but dissolved. Now we are waiting for year 3 after the change, hoping that will bring us back to respectability.

Well not to actually actively diminish the numbers you post, but just reciting those without context isn't exactly fair either. Everyone's obviously been down that road several times (blah blah blah EIEIO tourneys etc etc) so we don't need to rehash. I think we can agree to disagree on where Les had the program at the time of his firing - I obviously don't think it was in as good as shape as you think.

I think the last sentence is the key. "bring us back to respectability". I don't think that's what the people who wanted Les gone are thinking. We're not thinking, "let's get back to average in year 3". We're thinking, "Let's contend for and win titles in years 4, 5, 6, and beyond".

And for the university to spend millions of dollars of fans' donated funds on paying off the old coach, and overpaying for a new one was another part of what hurts the program. I will support the new coach, I have gone to every home game, and even a road game at IUPUI (how many of the critics even go to as many games?) and I have donated a lot of my money, so it's ludicrous to suggest I am not being a true fan. But like the thousands of fans who are not coming to the games any more, some of whom have stopped donating, there is dissatisfaction with the fallout (call it whatever you want) and the losing. How can you and others be so happy with where things are now with revenues and ticket sales lower than they have been in many decades.

The "how" part of the firing was definitely not executed well, I'll say that.

I'll be (possibly brutally) honest about what I think - I do think you are a true fan. I do think just like everyone here, you're a true fan, and you have great resources to back that up, unlike others who don't have the same resources.

I think your actions support you being a true fan, but your words camoflauge that. Obviously, if you put resources (time, money, whatever) into something, and that something behaves in a way you disagree with, there is a right to be mad. You have a right to state your case as to why. But what it feels like to me is that by doing this, you're camoflauging your actual true support for the current regime. I think you're undermining the current staff, players, etc., but I think you don't realize that you're actually doing it.

My "true fan" comment comes from that in the end, every fan in his/her own way is responsible for promotion of their team, and all they can do is project a positive attitude going forward for the program. You obviously are in a much greater position as far as visibility and resources to provide that promotion, and that gets camoflauged by the other stuff. With greater influence comes greater responsibility.

Please note that I have never started a thread to make these complaints. I have only done so because the other side keeps trying to attack and blame everything irrationally, and even in this thread we have seen irrational attacks on a player who was a committed recruit (Remy Abell).
You are enitled to your opinions, but why is it when other opinions are voiced, some get so bent out of shape, hurl attacks and insults, and try to shout down those they don't agree with?

I really don't have much beef with you, I've found I'm able to discuss these things with you on a fair level. You do get a fair bit of unwarranted criticism. I do think both sides have gone too far with all the attacks and stuff.

Anyways, I'd mention what I feel is the real source of the problems and what I thought of it, but posting my true unfiltered words on it would get the censors hopping.

 

[tornado]

I get a laugh when someone discounts BU's wins in E-I-E-I-O tourneys but revel, hoot & holler over wins against teams like UTPA & UT-Martin who are never even close to good enough to get to a post-season tourney...

 

[LittleBrave]

Top 5... Maybe Top 3 (with a little luck)... Some kind of post season bid.

I am "hoping" for Top 5, but would say 6th or 7th is more likely next season.
We do lose the services of 3 decent seniors who comprise about half of our team's scoring. The 4 or 5 newcomers may need a full season to adjust to Valley play, and they will experience growing pains. I feel they bring more talent to the table, and fill a couple gaps like much improved outside shooting and PG play, but that is unproven really.

I think expecting Top 4 by next season is a a bit much.
In year 4, I expect a Top 4 finish or bust!

 

[LittleBrave]

My strategy is if we dance in Geno's 4th or 5th season, get rid of him immediately! Let's just eliminate the backside of the mountain!

Funny stuff e-mayhem!

 

[DeltaBrave03]

I get a laugh when someone discounts BU's wins in E-I-E-I-O tourneys but revel, hoot & holler over wins against teams like UTPA & UT-Martin who are never even close to good enough to get to a post-season tourney...

No one here is planning any parades for this team. I think most agree they are seeing improvements from last year, and that's more based on play rather than who and how were beating teams. The constant misrepresentation of people's opinions gets old.

 

[TheAsianSensation]

I get a laugh when someone discounts BU's wins in E-I-E-I-O tourneys but revel, hoot & holler over wins against teams like UTPA & UT-Martin who are never even close to good enough to get to a post-season tourney...

Do people hoot and holler over wins against UTPA and UTM in the offseason? People do do it for the EIEIO games. Apples and oranges.

The cupcake games are on the schedule every year. The EIEIO games didn't exist until recently and evidence points to perfect timing more than anything else that resulted in a couple of the 20 win seasons. If there was no CBI and CIT tournaments and we finished with 17 or 18 wins both years, do you feel the pro-Les argument is any different?

 

[SFP]

Top 5... Maybe Top 3 (with a little luck)... Some kind of post season bid.

I am "hoping" for Top 5, but would say 6th or 7th is more likely next season.
We do lose the services of 3 decent seniors who comprise about half of our team's scoring. The 4 or 5 newcomers may need a full season to adjust to Valley play, and they will experience growing pains. I feel they bring more talent to the table, and fill a couple gaps like much improved outside shooting and PG play, but that is unproven really.

I think expecting Top 4 by next season is a a bit much.
In year 4, I expect a Top 4 finish or bust!

I'm starting to feel like year 3 will not be where I'd want it. In order to make the hop from .500 to top 3 it will take some major talent. I've already put AF as a top flight PG for next year but without seeing any of our recruits play the shooting aspect is way to large of a questions mark. You need shooters in this league to win consistently. Now on bigs, it will depend on our recruits and if NW can really help us out on a consistent basis. Year 4 is way to far away for me to make a prediction but if we're not contending for the title come Feb. and skip Thursday then I'll be completely disappointed. This all can change come spring with updated news on some great recruits. This will be a make or break class for GF. The following class will probably not really contribute in a large way until year 5.

 

[Gary the Gargoyle]

Do people hoot and holler over wins against UTPA and UTM in the offseason? People do do it for the EIEIO games. Apples and oranges.

The cupcake games are on the schedule every year. The EIEIO games didn't exist until recently and evidence points to perfect timing more than anything else that resulted in a couple of the 20 win seasons. If there was no CBI and CIT tournaments and we finished with 17 or 18 wins both years, do you feel the pro-Les argument is any different?

My view of the value of a 20 win season is based on the 30 regular season games (20-10 or better).

Twenty win seasons that I don't value come from a 16-14 regular season with 1 or 2 wins the conference tournament and 2 or 3 wins in the CBI or CIT. Anytime you finish with 15 or 16 losses, the 20 wins are greatly diminished in my view.

 

[wily coyote]

It was a joke. And if it really was 98%, the Civic Center would be full for each game. You are kidding yourself if you don't think there are a ton of disenchanted fans.

Thanks I'm glad it was a joke. Thought you were serious at first. I'm sure there are alot of people disenchanted. Don't doubt that for a moment but the CC wasn't full b4 the change except for ISU and it won't be until we start winning again. It's been said on here many times,winning will bring the people back. If that doesn't we have a real problem but I'm betting win and they will come. I'm going to say this one more time because I feel like I'm riding a dead horse but "it may not change if we keep putting those stupid packages together like our wonderful 4 pack". Sorry I'm done won't bring it up again. That one really P--sed me off.

 

[mrcoachdude]

most could care less...but have to throw in my 2 cents... I will be watching how Remy does...he is a nice kid that was headed here and decided to go to Indiana...still a nice kid and hope he does great for IU...appreciate the updates...

if I did not want to follow his career, I would not read a thread with his name in the title....

 

[Bravesfan]

Ok, we don't fire Les, the program falls anyways, the same decomposition happens.

I really want to focus on that last sentence. Yes we knew firing Les would cause fallout. How bad, no one knew. But you're acting like everything would've been fine if Bradley did nothing. If they kept on the path with Les. We were headed down this path with Les anyways, the firing only accelerated it and gives us a chance to recover as soon as possible (notice I said only a chance, Ford may or may not be the right hire; we'll see).

You're completely ignoring the reason why the firing happened in the first place, only focusing on the worst-case scenario as a result of the firing.

I would say the true Bradley fans are the ones who realize that no one man, or one or two recruits, is above the entire program. They realize every individual season can't be analyzed in a vacuum - previous recruting and previous seasons and previous player development impacts the next season. They realize bottoming out is a risk, and it's never ever wanted or rooted for, but they also realize it's OK if - and I stress if - it leads to a full recovery and even stronger program. The people who are putting their own interests first here are the ones who try to still argue that the firing was wrong and keep dregging up the past.

Excellent post TAS! And especially your previous one as well. While I may not necessarily take your side of the argument, you at least summarize perfectly where the two sides stand on this issue. Your previous post in particular showed that most people would agree that had Les stayed here, the program would not have bottomed out this badly.

Of course where we differ is that I believe with Abell and Hawkins, we would potentially be back in at least NIT territory this year. Yeah, I understand the ones that wanted Les gone thought he would not get any further than that, but I think he would have returned the program to greatness as he did succeed in doing before. If it turns out that Geno succeeds more consistently than Les did, great. I hope he does. But at the same time, the most successful programs do not have to bottom out so badly while they are rebuilding. And I believe Les was more than capable of straightening things out quicker. But since he's not here I hope Geno succeeds greatly as well.

 

[Bravesfan]

So the sentiments of fans on a message board can somehow drive the future of this team down? Wow, how things have changed.
I recall people, especially a certain columnist, intentionally trying to undermine the last regime. Where was all this "not fair to the players and coaches" then?

I think the difference here DC is that the same people here on the message boards who wanted Les gone have changed their tune because Geno is only in his second year here. And I hope he proves to everyone that he can restore the program to greatness. But you can bet that if we suffer through another year or two like we did last season, these same people will turn on Geno pretty quickly! Again, I'm sure we all hope it doesn't come to that and he does well here.

Regarding that "certain columnist", that's definitely a completely different situation than from some of the posters here (though a lot do agree with him). This was a person who never gave Les a chance from the get-go because of his lack of coaching experience, like it was his fault even though he wasn't the one who hired him! Why this columnist didn't go after the administration for hiring Les is beyond me, if that was why he was so upset. And also, for the same person to say this program was "light years better" than during the last year of Les's tenure was stupid beyond belief!

 

[Bravesfan]

you know I hope Abell does well.....heck I hope kids we don't recruit do well. Why wouldn't you? But he chose not to come here and that's fine.....people here follow him and talk about him more than the recruits we have.....that's what seems out of balance

Only because he had the potential to be a "franchise player" so to speak. And because we lost him after the coaching change.

 

[Bravesfan]

There are a few points from several posters that I agree with. I also have my own thoughts.

-- I don't think JL should have been fired when he was. I was prepared to give him one more season to prove that he could lead sustainable success. I don't consider .500 as success, and the fact remains that he only crossed that mark in conference play in three of his nine seasons at the helm.

-- If JL had been back, SM would have been back, and I think last season goes totally differently. I have never believed that SM was a great difference-maker, but putting his leadership on a team, and taking scoring pressure off TB and DSE (who both shot very poorly) would have made a huge difference.

-- To me, there is no doubt that firing JL cost us RA. The trade is that there are a few guys that we probably wouldn't have had that are, or might be, major contributors. I'll call that a wash.

-- I am in full support of Coach Ford, and I have to remind everyone that JL was 13-15, 6-12 in his third season. Even as late as the losses @MSU and @INSU in the Sweet 16 season, nobody knew how that campaign would end. Had we not made the dance, would JL have been around until 2011?

-- Both sides of this argument includes far too much drama. The fallout believers take it to the extreme and never let it die. The fallout haters sometimes want to make it personal and engage in endless arguments with the other side. There needn't be a chasm between us. We should all be able to have constructive conversations about these things without beating horses to death.

-- I am 100% pro-BU, no matter who the coach is, what players are on the floor, or how many people are in the seats. I happen to live outside Chicago, and I can't get to many games any more, as family and life obligations take priority. I also don't have the financial means to donate as much as others. That doesn't make me any less of a fan. That is one argument I'd like to see disappear.

-- I appreciate what Da Coach does on this site. The information is outstanding and the forum is excellent. If you don't recognize what we have here, go to forums of other valley schools, or much higher-profile schools. We simply have the best fans on one of the best forums in the nation. We don't always have to agree with each other, but for the sake of Bradley University and the Braves basketball team, let's look forward to a day when we will be back on top of the Valley and dominating the league like we used to. It has been a long time - but we will get there again. We are a proud program with a great tradition. Five years from now, we will all look back at this and be thankful that we built a strong, clean program that competes every season.

GO BRAVES

Joe

Excellent post Joe! Agreed with everything as well.

 

[BU30]

15 minutes tonight. 1-6 from the field - 1 assist - 1 turnover - game changer

 

[tornado]

not great numbers but good defense and helped his #1 ranked team to beat UNC convincingly

 

[Braves4Life]

It's hard to rip on a kid that can get playing time on a team as good as IU. He definitely looked liked he belonged at that level while in the game. His one basket was a three that sparked a big first half run. Once Crean found a team of guys that were playing UNBELIEVABLE he stuck with that hot hand and Abell played little (if any) after that.

 

[lefty]

Only because he had the potential to be a "franchise player" so to speak. And because we lost him after the coaching change.

yeah...I know why.....some want others to know what we are missing since the coaching change....so even when the stat line isn't good...he played a great floor game and great defense....like I said I hope he does good at IU......but I care more about how BU (and UofI) than i do recruits that were missed.

 

[Bravesfan]

yeah...I know why.....some want others to know what we are missing since the coaching change....so even when the stat line isn't good...he played a great floor game and great defense....like I said I hope he does good at IU......but I care more about how BU (and UofI) than i do recruits that were missed.

Well, nothing wrong with tracking all of our former recruits, players and coaches for those who are interested. I've seen threads here for just about everyone, not just Remy.