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Scottie Pippen to HOF

amckillip said:
Pippen's line the years before and after MJ's absence:

PPG REB AST STL FG%
18.6 7.7 6.3 2.1 .473
19.4 6.5 5.9 1.7 .463

When MJ was gone:

PPG REB AST STL FG%
22.0 8.7 5.6 2.9 .491
21.4 8.1 5.2 2.9 .480

When MJ was gone Pippen had markedly better years, All-NBA career-type years as a matter of fact, and got the Bulls deep in the playoffs with no sort of sidekick. So how do you justify with any sort of factual basis, heck even anything more than pure conjecture, that he was only above average talent?
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I love Scottie Pippen. But people just don't realize how much effect Michael Jordan had on the performance of his teammates. Pippen was never a star without Jordan, and he even has admitted that.
Pippen scored more after Jordan left because his shots per game went up and his free throws per game went way up. He had the ball a lot more, and shot more. His assists went down for those 2 seasons.

I also justify it by comparing other things-
like in the 3 seasons between 1995-1996 and 1997-98, the last 3 seasons he teamed with Michael Jordan- he averaged:
1995-96- 19.4 ppg
1996-97- 20.2 ppg
1997-98- 19.1 ppg

and the 5 seasons after he left the Bulls his scoring averages were-
1998-99- 14.5 ppg
1999-00- 12.5 ppg
2000-01- 11.3 ppg
2001-02- 10.6 ppg
2002-03- 10.8 ppg
2003-04- 5.9 ppg
That's a huge difference, and he started nearly every game for Houston and Portland, and played major minutes after he left the Bulls, but was never a star player again, and was only a bit above average. He never was an All-Star after 1997.

His NBA average for the seasons he played with MJ on the Bulls is about 18 ppg. For the years he played without MJ is under 14 ppg.
His career shooting percentage of 47% and 3-point percentage of 32.6% is below average for players similar to him who are in the HOF. He was an average rebounder (6.4 rpg) for his career.
 
Pippen was wrong that night and I'm sure he would say so today.....the way I look at it the guy had a long career and has been outta hoops for awhile and the ONLY negative you here about him was this ONE incident.

Never heard anyone call him a bad teammate...never heard anyone accuse him of being selfish and self centered (yes he was THAT one brief moment that nite) never seen his name all over any police blotters.

I HOPE people don't judge me or reach any conclusions based on a SINGLE stoopid event....
 
dogsrus said:
Pippen was wrong that night and I'm sure he would say so today.....the way I look at it the guy had a long career and has been outta hoops for awhile and the ONLY negative you here about him was this ONE incident.

Never heard anyone call him a bad teammate...never heard anyone accuse him of being selfish and self centered (yes he was THAT one brief moment that nite) never seen his name all over any police blotters.

I HOPE people don't judge me or reach any conclusions based on a SINGLE stooped event....
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Watched you play golf today from behind some tree's:wink: Not sure all those bad shots could be classified as stooped but I have reached a conclusion on your game, dogsrus:lol:
 
dogsrus said:
the way I look at it the guy had a long career and has been outta hoops for awhile and the ONLY negative you here about him was this ONE incident.

never seen his name all over any police blotters...
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Come on, dogs -- arrested for a loaded weapon in his car in 1994, domestic battery charge (followed by a paternity suit which he denied fathering a child) in 1995, suspicion of DWI in 1999 - let's not put him up for sainthood quite yet. I've never met him, so I can't speak to his character, but he wasn't as squeaky clean as we would like to believe.

Here's a pretty classy picture of Pip:

http://www.bestmugshotever.com/mugshot.php?id=567
 
wow -- if a single DUI and a couple allegations of domestic arguments is all you can come up with , then he's squeakier clean than 98% of the NBA and even a couple Valley teams..
 
electricmayhem said:
Come on, dogs -- arrested for a loaded weapon in his car in 1994, domestic battery charge (followed by a paternity suit which he denied fathering a child) in 1995, suspicion of DWI in 1999 - let's not put him up for sainthood quite yet. I've never met him, so I can't speak to his character, but he wasn't as squeaky clean as we would like to believe.

Here's a pretty classy picture of Pip:

http://www.bestmugshotever.com/mugshot.php?id=567
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Really that stuff is about par for the course in the Association.

I still have issues with his "migraine" v Detroit in 89-90 which likely resulted from his "concussion he had in the 88-89 playoffs v Detroit. He was marshmellow soft in his first few years but he really evolved into a dependable player all the rest of that decade.

I think he deserves all the attention he has received for his game, career and achievements but it should never be ignored that he quit on his team in very critical situations.
 
houstontxbrave said:
Really that stuff is about par for the course in the Association.

I still have issues with his "migraine" v Detroit in 89-90 which likely resulted from his "concussion he had in the 88-89 playoffs v Detroit. He was marshmellow soft in his first few years but he really evolved into a dependable player all the rest of that decade.

I think he deserves all the attention he has received for his game, career and achievements but it should never be ignored that he quit on his team in very critical situations.
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This alone, should disqualify him or anyone from going in ANY HOF, don't you think:rolleyes: Isn't the HOF about being a teammate and a team player:? Or is it all about a individuals numbers:-o If it is the second here, then, the NBA and its HOF is as criminal as most of its players:!: Come On man:badgrin:
 
BradleyJD said:
Anyone catch the piece on ESPN about too many people getting their own statues?

Bud Selig and Scottie Pippen?? Who will be next?

How about a Tim Legler statue? Maybe a Shawon Dunston statue?
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I'd love to see a Shawon duston statue... all time favorite Cub!
 
tornado said:
wow -- if a single DUI and a couple allegations of domestic arguments is all you can come up with , then he's squeakier clean than 98% of the NBA and even a couple Valley teams..
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I was just arguing the point dogs made about not seeing his name on the police blotters... it was there. Whether or not the rest of the league engages in criminal activity doesn't matter.

I'll give you this - he, Oscar Robertson and John Havlicek are still the only players in NBA history with 18,000+ points, 7,000+ rebounds and 6,000+ assists. Kobe will be there in a few years... and probably LeBron eventually.
 
Da Coach said:
His NBA average for the seasons he played with MJ on the Bulls is about 18 ppg. For the years he played without MJ is under 14 ppg.
His career shooting percentage of 47% and 3-point percentage of 32.6% is below average for players similar to him who are in the HOF. He was an average rebounder (6.4 rpg) for his career.
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That is not really fair. You aren't factoring in that he was over the age of 34 in all but 2 years of the non-MJ years(and i don't think you are counting 93-94/94-95?). Every forward-guard type in the league regresses around that time. I am sure Big O, Jerry West, etc. all showed a significant decline.

Also, stats don't take into account that he may have been the best defender of his generation, definitely as a forward.

And the DWI/gun things were both dropped due to lack of evidence. Maybe it was a favor to a famous athlete, or maybe it was a cop trying to get on the news.
 
JMM28 said:
That is not really fair. You aren't factoring in that he was over the age of 34 in all but 2 years of the non-MJ years(and i don't think you are counting 93-94/94-95?). Every forward-guard type in the league regresses around that time. I am sure Big O, Jerry West, etc. all showed a significant decline.

Also, stats don't take into account that he may have been the best defender of his generation, definitely as a forward.

And the DWI/gun things were both dropped due to lack of evidence. Maybe it was a favor to a famous athlete, or maybe it was a cop trying to get on the news.
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He knows it's not fair. I compared the four most similar years, when Scottie was at his prime both with and without MJ, as fair as a comparison as one can get, but that didn't support his argument. Pulling up stats of an NBA player in their late thirties doesn't prove anything. Fact of the matter is, when you are a unanimous first ballot hall of famer, there is no chance you are only an average NBA player, no matter who you played with.

As a matter of fact I don't think Jim Les was anything more than an average MVC-player that Hersey made look good. Without Hersey he averaged 6.3 ppg. With Hersey he averaged 12.1. Thats almost a 100% improvement. Hersey clearly just carried JL.

For the record, I am not a Bulls fan, nor a fan of any Chicago team, I even hate the Cubs with a passion.
 
There are quite a few people who think Pippen was overrated, and does not belong in the Top 50 players in NBA history.
I am not one of them. I think Pipppen does belong in the Top 50.
But I have probably seen more discussion about Pippen not belonging in the Top 50 than just about any other member of that group.
Skip Bayless, ESPN reporter, believes he does not belong-
http://www.clublakers.com/nba-discu...-think-scottie-pippen-top-player-t124501.html


Here are a couple discussions about which players should be deleted from the Top 50 (especially if younger players like LeBron is added). Pippen is mentioned by more people than any other-
http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2009/06/the_nbas_top_50_players_of_all.html

http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/scottie-pippen-most-overrated-player-nba-history-1412516/index2.html
 
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