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Geno= Coach of the year?

tornado said:
well, Snell & Kleine both thought JP played a good game defensively - who does Drake have that's superior to the players we have on the floor?
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they must have seen a different game than I did........I thought our whole team played pretty poorly on the defensive end
 
tornado said:
I just don't see better players on their squad - that's why they are in 9th place - we didn't get beat by a better team we gave this one away.
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Can't disagree with that. But Drake made the plays when they needed to, and we didn't. We still play afraid on the road. I think that's the biggest factor. But remember we made big comebacks against some teams at home this year, so it happens to everyone from time to time. It just shouldn't happen against a 9th place team, even on the road.
 
tornado said:
we got beat but we can bounce back and we can get ready and get even in St. Louis
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That's what I'm trying to tell myself tonight. I'd rather learn from a hard lesson tonight and win 1 in St. Louis and compete to the end on Friday than to lose our first game there.
 
tornado said:
maybe - but actually, FWO - of the 3 "injured" starters - there's actually a little serendipity that makes Gregg Marshall look good when in fact it also exposes some bad coaching moves he might have been making before it cost them........
...so although it won't be popular with Shocker fans - I am going to play spoiler a little...

One of the "injured" has returned and only missed 7 games ...and interestingly Wichita was 6-1 in those games without Hall,
BUT ..... they were also 6-1 in the 7 games before he went out and they kept winning all their games for the next two weeks after Hall returned as well!!
- so even tho he was a starter - it's debatable whether it is or was his absence that made any difference or was it just the time span and the teams that were on the schedule that was the only determining factor...

The other two "injured" guys may actually have forced Marshall to use players off his bench that he simply did not know were every bit as good maybe better than the ones he lost...so how is this good coaching??
Baker averaged just 7 ppg in his 10 games and Wessel in his 8 games barely averaged 5 ppg.

Wessel's absence moved Cleanthony Early into the starting lineup - so the argument could be made HOW THE HECK was Gregg Marshall NOT starting Cleanthony Early the first 1/4 of the season - forcing Early to put up 25-point games to let Marshall know his talents were being wasted as a bench player...Early has had the NBA scouts there watching him and yet he wasn't a starter until Marshall was forced to start him?? Good coaching??

Then when Baker went out with his 5.5 ppg average - that forced Marshall to move Demetric Williams into the lineup and it's pretty apparent to anyone who's watched the Shox, that Williams is a better player and should have been starting over Baker!
Demetric's numbers are considerably better across the board from what Baker was giving them...plus he's become a team leader.
I think they are a better team with him in the starting lineup.


Oddly - just a month ago there was this article...
"Wichita State - HOT START, NOW ABOUT TO GET HEALTHY..."
hinting that now that they were getting their injured players back - they were going to take off and be unstoppable...
BUT..........now they're just 3-3 since beating Bradley with most everyone "healthy"....
so again - can one use this to argue for good coaching??
Let's see how WSU does down the stretch before engraving Gregg's name...
they still have to play at Indiana State & Creighton plus two tough games vs. Evansville & Detroit.
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I happened to know all this as I do stats for fantasy MVC (thanks for info though) I still see losing 2 players for the year starters or not (they would still be big contributors) as adversity and it affects rotations and longevity of players.

Also Wessell is a freshman... what if he went off as he gained more experience..
 
everyone in the Valley right now is beatable - the team that plays hardest and wants it the most can win it
 
Geno and the team have done an admirable job but as we have seen and discussed all season - we have a very short bench - that leads to fatigue, and we continue to have both physical and even mental errors and breakdowns in the 2nd half and especially late in games...
The games we win are the ones we play without those mistakes..........
 
tornado said:
Geno and the team have done an admirable job but as we have seen and discussed all season - we have a very short bench - that leads to fatigue, and we continue to have both physical and even mental errors and breakdowns in the 2nd half and especially late in games...
The games we win are the ones we play without those mistakes..........
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Agreed. We are not good enough or deep enough to give less than our best and expect to win games.

Last night was not good. You have an up and down game, but could have put it way with TP's freebies and couldn't convert. That just stings.
 
Geno for Coach of the Year was a stretch to begin with. Any outside chance he had went up in flames last night. Hopefully he will win the award in the not to distant future. One of the problems that keeps getting stated time after time on this board is our lack of depth. That can be attributed to what has been lacking in recruiting the past two years more than the previous years of the Les regime. Our two best players are DSE and WL, after that we have WE another holdover from the JL years and Pickett who has done an adequate job as Geno's best recruit. Eastman and Prosser contribute, they being JL recruits. So of the players we count on 5 were recruited by JL. SS has been a huge bust, Crawford marginal at best. Reynolds told us what a great late recruit SS was for Geno his first year, then this past fall we were told how much improved SS was - more Kool Aid!!!!!!!!!! If the recruits we have coming in, along with the redshirts we have, pan out, then maybe we can get better. This years improvement is with players from the past staff, give Geno credit for making this years team better, but not impressed with what he has brought in himself.
 
panther12thman said:
Geno for Coach of the Year was a stretch to begin with. Any outside chance he had went up in flames last night. Hopefully he will win the award in the not to distant future. One of the problems that keeps getting stated time after time on this board is our lack of depth. That can be attributed to what has been lacking in recruiting the past two years more than the previous years of the Les regime. Our two best players are DSE and WL, after that we have WE another holdover from the JL years and Pickett who has done an adequate job as Geno's best recruit. Eastman and Prosser contribute, they being JL recruits. So of the players we count on 5 were recruited by JL. SS has been a huge bust, Crawford marginal at best. Reynolds told us what a great late recruit SS was for Geno his first year, then this past fall we were told how much improved SS was - more Kool Aid!!!!!!!!!! If the recruits we have coming in, along with the redshirts we have, pan out, then maybe we can get better. This years improvement is with players from the past staff, give Geno credit for making this years team better, but not impressed with what he has brought in himself.
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You know if Eastman plays 30 plus minutes a game you are in trouble....Milos takes a scolly.....JP contributes?....

I don't blame JL...he did what he thought was best. Recruiting does take a little time in building relationships.....people can cry Geno's recruits don't help and others can dry JL's recruits made the dumbest mistakes last night......

At the end of the day we just aren't a good road team but play pretty well at home most of the time..........depth is a problem and quite frankly some of that would be on both coaches at this time
 
I think there's evidence of every Valley team playing worse than or no better than expected ... except three ...
BRADLEY could be the only team that might end up more than 3 spots higher than predicted if we can finish strong and land 4-5th....
Indiana State is sitting 3 spots higher than predicted and Wichita is also 3 spots higher but time will tell..........
EVERYONE else in the Valley has done either just as predicted or more poorly...


Here's how the MVC was PREDICTED in the preseason...

1- Creighton - was picked as a runaway winner and some thought they'd go undefeated but it's looking like they will be lucky to finish 2nd

2 - ISU - is probably worst prediction of all as they even got some 1st place votes, were considered a lock as an at-large team and yet are knocking on the door of a Thursday spot

3 - UNI - was picked third, and that's where they are - not so much because of good play but more due to default as all the teams below them are around .500 or worse

4 - Wichita - and many other preseason experts picked them 2nd and thought they'd be the only team to challenge Creighton - and they've had injuries but so has everyone else, but a bit higher than predicted but NOBODY doubted they'd be among the best teams in the Valley and if you have talented All American players, then it's a good coaching job where they're at but not earthshattering

5 - Evansville - picked 5th & they are 5th

6 - Drake - picked 6th and they're 9th

7 - Indiana State - picked 7th and now 1 game above .500 but in 4th - a good coaching job

8 - Missouri State - sitting right where they were picked even tho some prematurely had said Lusk is in the running for Coach of the Year back when MSU was 3-1 against SIU, Drake, & ISU

9 - Bradley - picked next to last - Bradley obviously need to stay out of Thursday to say the season's any better than predicted..but we were right there -- had we won the two games we had in the bag - the UNI game and last night, and if we even split our final two games then BU would have finished 10-8 and been battling for 3rd place - definitely that's a COY-accomplishment that has narrowly been missed...

10 - SIU - right where everyone said they be - that is everyone except some local guys
 
tornado said:
9 - Bradley - picked next to last - Bradley obviously need to stay out of Thursday to say the season's any better than predicted..but we were right there -- had we won the two gaves we had in the bag - the UNI game and last night, and if we even split our final two games then BU would have finished 10-8 and been battling for 3rd place - definitely that's a COY-accomplishment that has narrowly been missed...
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I know I'm nit-pickin here, but the UNI game was in the bag? We didn't even jump INTO the bag until 15 minutes into the 2nd half, and never had the lead.
Did you mean the Wichita St. game by chance?
 
I think Geno knows what he has to do to get the program going. I like his 2 recruits so far and believe ( and hope) he will get two good recruits with the next 2 scholarships. It takes a while to build a program. I like his transfers and really like Anthony Fields. Just the point guard we need and move Lemon to offguard.with the way he moves off the ball..it will add to his total game. Biggest problem we need solved right now is a big man. We will be in pretty good shape guard wise
 
tell us what you know about Fields & Grier - you seem to have some insight - nobody has seen much of them so they are still "unopened packages"...
 
I dont know that much about Grier..just from seeing him play in the Red-White scrimmage at the beginning of the season. I will trust Geno's judgement on him. I saw Fields on a You tube from here. Saw great quickness with the ability to shoot the 3. But what I liked most was he looked to pass first then if it was not there then he is able to create. He will make our players better
 
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